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Thread: Reunite Psychedelia and The Avant-Garde.

  1. #16
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    once you depict the region other people can find their way there.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    thats (cubism/surrealism in a comic book) a good example of how the avant-garde creates new forms which then filter down through society into the mass market and condition experience.
    http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=14119

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  4. #18
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    what's your timescale then? when did the avant-garde become detached from psychedelia?

  5. #19
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    i have to leave the house quite soon and work
    but in music its the singularity around 'E'
    the ripples radiating out around MDMA.

    the '60s were bigger, more important and more integrated
    becasue everything is affected from philosophy to psychotherapy
    to music to politics.

    but if we play ou cards right then 2020 will be bigger still!
    one year to go!

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    luke:

    i do suspect that i true psychedelic culture would melt rap into something almost
    unrecognisable. it's hard to say. there aren't many examples of black musicians
    banging the psychs outside of coltrane and clinton.

    wu's lyrics were psychedelic. their attitue to reality.

    life is a test

    how can i put it? life is like video footage.


    that kind of thing where they put you in a different relationship with your own life.

    a true psychedelia rewrites everything.
    attitude to reality, personal relationships, politics, religion,
    the lot. it's an apocolypse. nothing survives intact.

  7. #21
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    thanks barti look after this thread for me till i get home please.
    Shepherd it to new pastures

  8. #22
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    make a some big, bold leaps, think big and bigger still
    accidentally invent a new art form, a new mode of being,
    a new experience, as impossible as a new colour!

  9. #23
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    ok, i'll resist the urge to make this another atlanta rap thread.

  10. #24
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    just to clarify your discontents:

    1) art at the moment isnít giving expression and form to psychadelia; it isnít articulating it.

    2) psychedelia isnít informing and rewriting every facet of society in the way it did during the 60ís or the romantic period.



    my initial response to which is:

    1) how much of that is your own lack of porousness?

    as i keep banging on about 2015-2017 has been this psychadelic utopia music wise for me albeit a fairly concentrated one. in terms of things being rewritten, new frontiers being explored, migos have invented a whole new physicality and means of motion. in 300,000 years humans have not once been compelled to move in the specific manor they are when listening to migos. not once. they hadnít even conceived of motion before. all of that achieved through the manipulation of stimuli.

    2) thatís undoubtedly true. again in terms of larger impacts you could say that rap music is redefining african-american ideas of gender identity, but thatís all a bit dry and dull. since the 60ís psychadelia has become increasingly atomised. in the 60ís it was politics, therapy, art, etc. the 90ís it was large collectives of people contained to fields listening to music; other facets of life unaffected. now itís just me in a bedroom frustrated that migos arenít venerated as the 2nd coming of christ.

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  12. #25
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    Why is psychedelia inherently a good thing? As that seems to be your presumption Luke? It's led to an enormous amount of terrible terrible art and music. I'm not particularly against what you're saying - but I think you need to make the case for it.

    Also, surely it's about new drugs really taking off with new generations? LSD in the 60s, MDMA in the 90s - surely without any new drugs galvinising people such a movement won't get off the ground. I get the sense that today's youth don't take drugs in the same way we used to, not sure what reasons for that would be - or if it's even true. Which is weird, 'cos I'm sure that there are many more oddball psychedelic compounds around than there used to be (what the fuck even is Spice?), and many more means of distribution also.

    And also - to crossover with what you were arguing with Padraig about in the other thread what about economics? The 60s and 90s were both periods of large scale economic growth. The energy of 60s consumer-capitalism seems a easy match for LSD Utopianism for one. E culture seemed to build on a DIY vibe that seemed in contrast to Thatcherism at the time, but kinda embodied it - you need to be some kind of entrepreneur to break into a warehouse with a rig and flog tickets via pirate radio. What might be the drug of choice for a stagnating decaying economy where we are already at each other's throats? Smack seems appropriate looking at the state of the world.
    Last edited by DannyL; 29-10-2018 at 01:44 PM.

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  14. #26
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    well I'll take a stab

    @danny - "is it good?" is the wrong question - psychedelic is about potentiality

    the art created is incidental - some is good, some is bad - which is which is taste which as established is (while fun to argue about) a dead end

    the 60s and the 90s - both times of mass disillusionment - the 60s with the 50s dream of homogeneity, 90s with the end of history post-Cold War hegemony

    in economic boom times, the fundamental contradictions of life in modern industrialized society come into starkest relief

    i.e. is this all there is - more $ to buy more stuff - meanwhile individuals are meaningless, the world is ultimately doomed via the very culture that produces the stuff

    whereas when people are struggling materially they focus in on the day-to-day and those contradictions recede into background noise

    as I've said before the psychedelic exists in the space between the potential and the measured - the imagined and the real

    so it is a (mostly unconscious) attempt to deal with that cognitive dissonance via opening up new potentialities

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  16. #27
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    early-mid 20th C. modernism was also trying to deal with this fundamental cognitive dissonance
    (*tho at that time they lacked fully the tools to articulate it - modernism being also the development of those tools)

    via technique - liberating melody from harmony, motif from narrative, etc - as well as aesthetic-philosophical approach

    in that way it was also about opening up new potentialities - what else is tonal music? what is 4'33" but an exploration into the potential of sound?

    whereas - as luke says (assuming I've read him correctly) - it has now retreated into formalism, guilds of technicians plying their craft

    which is a fine and honest profession but can only ever explore nuances of true innovation to the logical dead ends
    Last edited by padraig (u.s.); 29-10-2018 at 03:51 PM.

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  18. #28
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    incidentally, heavy metal was/is also an attempt to deal with that cognitive dissonance, but via nihilism and the individual (why it's often so unfortunately open to fascist tendencies)

    "heavy" referring not only to sonics but to its heaviness in grappling with reality - with darkness

    a counter-response to the hippie folkway of dealing with it via utopian PLUR

    this is also why metal is almost always very un-psychedelic - it is a fundamentally different approach to reality

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  20. #29
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    anyway - now is not a time of mass disillusionment

    the people with $/leisure time for psychedelic exploration are already long disillusioned

    9/11, financial collapse, long stupid imperial wars, financial collapse, a new irreversible climate-changed derived Migration Period, blut und boden nativism sweeping the West in response

    the mass shift to precarity and gig labor - desperately grim looming future of automation and a vast UBI underclass ruled by post-human tech-bro philosopher kings

    i.e. if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot app on your smartphone stamping on the human face - forever

    drugs now are for escape and pacification

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    and b4 I forget

    I only hear Migos etc diagetically in the world, it's not my thing at all but I would ask sadman

    what potentialities do they explore? how are they a conduit between the real/imagined, known/unknowable?

    I'm not saying they're not - it doesn't seem like it at all to me but again I am inexpert

    rap in general is like metal very unpsychdelic - i.e. CNN of the streets, "getting you stuck off the realness"

    granted it often enough crosses into hyperreal surreality but I would distinguish that from the psychedelic

    granted idk what young people are up to so maybe there is truly psychedelic rap now it just seems antithetical from the projec

    regardless - how exactly have migos invented a "whole new physicality and means of motion" - again not saying they haven't, but it is, you'll admit, a rather fantastic claim

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