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Thread: Reunite Psychedelia and The Avant-Garde.

  1. #31
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    Good point - I think if you look at Migos on the level of the lyrical (not where the interest lies at all, I know) they're profoundly banal, and offer no new possibilities at all. The most interesting thing about them lyrically is that they've reduced rap to a set of formal cliches that have to be worked through. (Incidentally, I played "T-shirt" to a class this morning - the strongest response was from a student who said "that's straight TRASH" - the conservatism of youth speaking? idk).
    Last edited by DannyL; 29-10-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    just to clarify your discontents:
    [B]
    now it’s just me in a bedroom frustrated that migos aren’t venerated as the 2nd coming of christ.
    i can't tell if you are taking the piss, or self-mocking your own enthusiasm for Migos

    but i had decided a few months ago that Culture II is trap's White Album

    without knowing that "Migos = Beatles" was already a cliche back in 2017!

    amusingly rap nerds think they were last any good at all in 2013 (cf similar opinion that Future was only good on Pluto and it's been downhill ever since) which is like saying the Beatles should have just kept on doing "She Loves You" forever and ever

    but then rap nerds are always attached to the old forms, what reminds them of what got them into the area originally

    they are not well placed to recognise the New taking shape
    Last edited by blissblogger; 29-10-2018 at 05:18 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    Also, surely it's about new drugs really taking off with new generations? LSD in the 60s, MDMA in the 90s - surely without any new drugs galvinising people such a movement won't get off the ground.
    You could say the same of instruments. The 60s had the electric guitar, the 90s had samplers and various other bits of hardware and nothing's really come along since. All that's happened is the hardware's been developed into software, it doesn't really do anything new. The newest thing available is probably Max/MSP but even that's old now and only a handful of people can really get into it anyway due to the commitment required and the learning curve.

  4. #34
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    good posts padraig. yes, to answer your question Danny I do think that consciousness raising, expanding the sphere of awareness, is fundamentally a good thing.

    i don't mean psychedelia as a set of signifiers i mean the mysteries.

  5. #35
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    but to stick to Luka's concept

    or something close to it

    there is an art critic I like called Donald Kuspit, whose whole thing is to do with how modernism and the avant-garde was primarily about healing - art as therapeutics, psychic reintegration, a cure for modern alienation / the human condition

    he is very caustic about everything that follows after Warhol (and I guess also Duchamp), i.e. postmodernism, concept art, Koons, appropriation art, Sherrie Levine, probably Damien Hirst type stuff - ie. everything that is evading this primal function for art, and instead playing games with references, offering meta-commentary on art itself. so not unrelated to some of the things critiqued in Retromania - music about music, pastiche pop, etc.

    From Kuspit's point of view all this is just prattle, empty games with signifiers, ignoring what people desperately need from art, which i guess he also sees in quasi-religious terms

    Anyway although psychedelia is about something else - something more shattering - it still has a relation to the idea of art having spiritual purpose and serving as a remedy

    i always remember a comment at the end of this book Leaving the 20th Century, the collection of Situationist texts and graphics and cartoons, the editor Christopher Gray says in his conclusion, the masses don't need to be told what the score is by Guy Debord and his pals, they know everything is fucked, they know they are alienated, this way of life is not right... and he says the Situationists were too theoretical, not attentive to the emotions or the body, and that the missing part of their politics was a mass program of psychotherapy

    i wonder where the connection is between psychedelia and psychotherapy / psychoanalysis ... the first is breaking down, the latter building up again?

    there was all that radical psychiatry in the Sixties

    i guess this is something Mark would have explored in his Acid Communism book

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  7. #36
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    the connection is huuuuge. let me see if ive got the mental energy to answer the question properly.

  8. #37
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    in both cases you are dredging up contents from the unconscious and integrating them. that is the fundamental identity between the two worlds. psychoanalysis is psychedelic.

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  10. #38
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    it's becoming aware, viscerally aware, of self as system. it's becoming aware of cosmic plumbing. the flows and blockages. of how that affects the way you experience the world and how the world responds to you.
    i'ts about locating trauma, replaying it and thereby neutralising it. it's becoming aware of how your present is conditioned by your past, by what you are holding onto, and it is about learning to let that go.

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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    the masses don't need to be told what the score is by Guy Debord and his pals, they know everything is fucked
    of course. existential despair exists whether it's articulated or not.

    it's still very important to articulate b/c without that you wind up with people flailing around blindly for the source of their discontent, and that generally doesn't end well

    it's a good critique - the problem is, how could they functionally have accomplished such a thing?

    that kind of mass therapeutic experience is impossible in modern industrialized society, which is founded on that very alienation and could not exist without it

    why else are we/people forever chasing its shades, glimpses of it in the ether

    art therefore as ersatz mass psychotherapy is interesting - it's the only thing with sufficient cathartic-existential potential - but it's too ambiguous and subjective I think to function in that way

    therapy is a directed process between therapist and patient (something something Foucault "madness" power dynamics, but still)

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  14. #40
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    also in the case of radical psychiatry/anti-psychiatry, even small scale efforts often went badly. I say that as a big RD Laing fan.

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    mainstream psychotherapy often goes badly too becasue you are dealing with people who have very serious, possibly intractable problems.

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    i can explain how writing operates therapeutically because i am the expert. i can't speak of any other field.

    writing compels the adversary to show his face. it captures and contains the adversary within a delimited field, the page. it allows the writer to take the measure of and enter into combat with the adversary. it allows the writer to model other ways of acting and reacting, and to audition other identities. the page plays much the same role as therapist in acting both as mirror and as blank screen on which projections are thrown.
    Last edited by luka; 29-10-2018 at 06:06 PM.

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    of how that affects the way you experience the world and how the world responds to you.
    i'ts about locating trauma, replaying it and thereby neutralising it. it's becoming aware of how your present is conditioned by your past, by what you are holding onto, and it is about learning to let that go.
    all true

    need to distinguish between therapy and psychoanalysis tho - latter is possibly psychedelic on an individual level

    most therapy is anti-psychedelic - w/o even getting into the Foucault etc depths of madness and civilization, just talking the mundane stuff

    literally the opposite - two ways to the same ultimate goal of confronting and dealing with reality honestly

  19. #44
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    we're saying the same thing

  20. #45
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    basically

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