padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I need to think on it, which I will
The Depths
- Thread starter pattycakes_
- Start date
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
but even beyond then there were great works provoking us to question things. eg the 70s is unarguably the greatest decade for film. it feels like the 90s/00s were the beginning of the true end of provocative art. and the seeds were sown in the 80s.
germans...
that's not what i was saying there. i meant that the 'acknowledged' deep creators from the past still hold their weight today. and probably will for the rest of time. my point is, even though we seem to be existing in a time where when that kind of expression is made today, its met by nudges and winks... yet those guys are still held up high. so what happened? it's not like we're unable to percieve and appreciate, or feel in awe of depth. we still revere it as much as ever. but we play ourselves down by not allowing each other to go there anymore. crabs in the bucket. and i'm already feeling the pull internally just writing this. because it's ingrained on that level. but why?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
@luka - fair enough
I disagree of course, but it's a coherent position to hold
it may be part of why you don't get on with depth, which is usually (maybe always) in some way about manipulation of extremes to produce dynamics
creating the depths to fall into/stare down into/submerge/etc
I have less of a grasp on what's canonical - or more to the point, what does or doesn't make something canonical - in literature than in music or visual art
I disagree of course, but it's a coherent position to hold
it may be part of why you don't get on with depth, which is usually (maybe always) in some way about manipulation of extremes to produce dynamics
creating the depths to fall into/stare down into/submerge/etc
I have less of a grasp on what's canonical - or more to the point, what does or doesn't make something canonical - in literature than in music or visual art
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
right, OK
part of it is the passage of time that always happens with art - it's exceedingly rare for things to acknowledged like that in the moment
see above comment in GY!BE post about gradual subsuming of radical artistic ideas into general cultural lexicon (recuperation being the capitalist version of this)
I don't think you're wrong tho
one thing that comes to mind is the omnipresence of art and culture - things are no longer discrete events
think of any open-ended film series (i.e. "Marvel Cinematic Universe") with solely market-dictated logic - the individual films have no beginning and end, they just loiter on screen for approximately 2 hours, part of a neverending corridor of revenue-generating exposition/plot points - that is culture in general - not wholly negative but it's very "for better and worse", and one effect is robbing discrete events of their power, mystique. your question is a manifestation of the time barrier as well - things which were created before the omnipresence of cultural creation, tho possibly hard to separate from above noted usual artistic passage of time. surely there is some element of inherent post-modernist sneering but I think it might be overrated.
it's a complicated question either way, that kind of thing I imagine academia/the higher end of culture industry has/is producing articles, books, etc about.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
The Long Con
my own theory is that the military industrial complex used the 80s as the incubator decade for what we're now living. regan/thatcher - king/queen. trashy media, music videos, action films, cartoons and computer games were used to desensitize us against all kinds of horrors. even mario is about killing when you think about it. with exposure to that 80s style of genetically modified, carefully curated aesthetic acting like drugs on the eyes of kids, they programmed us to think nothing of killing. and essentially be turned on by it. no doubt the taste for blood lies deep within us and goes back before history began. they know this and exploited it, sensationalized it and made it into mindless fun.
it's on record that the CIA had influential authors like hemingway on their payroll - using them as propaganda agents. and that's just the basic level. knowing that these are the types of things they get up to, and that'sjust the literary world, you begin to realize that if they wanted, they could basically tend the strings of reality whichever way they chose. and maybe everything we look back at with dewey eyed nostalgia about our childhoods now, could have been a control construct designed to covertly shape us into whatever form they chose at an age where we would have no chance of percieving, let alone defending ourselves against it.
there's a book i don't remember the name of written about running colonies in s.e asia from back in the day. one thing that stuck out in it basically said it takes 2 generations of control to make a people forget who they are. their names, their language, their culture can all be wiped away. 2 generations. it listed the methods which resembled the brainwashing techniques of the military and cults. all pretty standard manipulation stuff, and all totally usable on a mass scale. rearranging language was a big part of it. creating a sense of subtle unrest by rearranging words in a way that is lingually recognisable/understandable, but unsettling. not unlike gaslighting.
what i'm getting at is that i believe there's been seeds of ideological subversion/demoralization sown into the our reality which have shaped us into a people who no longer believe in anything, and essentially feel hopeless. we're being mass managed on a global scale. and the things which used to give us a sense of connection like religion (not saying i want to go back) were slowly but surely dismantled to the point where we're left with little other than a sense of total detatchment from it all.
i'm struggling to get all the ideas together to make this coherent, but hopefully you get the point. i think the nudges and winks are partly crabs in the bucket and partly very well designed control techniques that don't allow us to reach our potential anymore. and yeah this is a gnat's chuff away from the 'hey let's all move to a big house in the country, drop acid and fuck' cult leader mentality. but it feels real to me god damn it.
think i posted this in the dematerialization thread:
my own theory is that the military industrial complex used the 80s as the incubator decade for what we're now living. regan/thatcher - king/queen. trashy media, music videos, action films, cartoons and computer games were used to desensitize us against all kinds of horrors. even mario is about killing when you think about it. with exposure to that 80s style of genetically modified, carefully curated aesthetic acting like drugs on the eyes of kids, they programmed us to think nothing of killing. and essentially be turned on by it. no doubt the taste for blood lies deep within us and goes back before history began. they know this and exploited it, sensationalized it and made it into mindless fun.
it's on record that the CIA had influential authors like hemingway on their payroll - using them as propaganda agents. and that's just the basic level. knowing that these are the types of things they get up to, and that'sjust the literary world, you begin to realize that if they wanted, they could basically tend the strings of reality whichever way they chose. and maybe everything we look back at with dewey eyed nostalgia about our childhoods now, could have been a control construct designed to covertly shape us into whatever form they chose at an age where we would have no chance of percieving, let alone defending ourselves against it.
there's a book i don't remember the name of written about running colonies in s.e asia from back in the day. one thing that stuck out in it basically said it takes 2 generations of control to make a people forget who they are. their names, their language, their culture can all be wiped away. 2 generations. it listed the methods which resembled the brainwashing techniques of the military and cults. all pretty standard manipulation stuff, and all totally usable on a mass scale. rearranging language was a big part of it. creating a sense of subtle unrest by rearranging words in a way that is lingually recognisable/understandable, but unsettling. not unlike gaslighting.
what i'm getting at is that i believe there's been seeds of ideological subversion/demoralization sown into the our reality which have shaped us into a people who no longer believe in anything, and essentially feel hopeless. we're being mass managed on a global scale. and the things which used to give us a sense of connection like religion (not saying i want to go back) were slowly but surely dismantled to the point where we're left with little other than a sense of total detatchment from it all.
i'm struggling to get all the ideas together to make this coherent, but hopefully you get the point. i think the nudges and winks are partly crabs in the bucket and partly very well designed control techniques that don't allow us to reach our potential anymore. and yeah this is a gnat's chuff away from the 'hey let's all move to a big house in the country, drop acid and fuck' cult leader mentality. but it feels real to me god damn it.
think i posted this in the dematerialization thread:
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pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
on another note,,
this hit me hard when i first heard it a few years ago on a 2cb & e sesh. chills. still manages to blow me away almost every listen.
this hit me hard when i first heard it a few years ago on a 2cb & e sesh. chills. still manages to blow me away almost every listen.
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luka
Well-known member
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
I swear I get spam emails from you trying to get me to click dodgy links
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
2 of the deepest house cuts ever.
Trillhouse
Well-known member
Interesting.
an easy one.
self expression + openness + space = deep?
is 'deep' just 'soulful' without religious connotations?
deep. deep. deep. deep. repetitious constant = deep?
deep + twee = magical ??
an easy one.
self expression + openness + space = deep?
is 'deep' just 'soulful' without religious connotations?
deep. deep. deep. deep. repetitious constant = deep?
deep + twee = magical ??
woops
is not like other people
great post and thread and surprised myself by enjoying the tune
there's a lot of cannonical literature that has dated extremely badly.
D. H. Lawrence being a prime example.
Forster another.
Tradition is always the last gasp of the artisan with his own tools.
The problem with tradition is you always have to freeze-frame it in aspic to make it coherent.
This is why I prefer doctrines to tradition. Doctrines are violent and straightahead, traditions are conformist. the acidheads were mainly traditional, that's why Manson et al were able to carve out a space. 99.9% of people use psychedelia for spiritual experiences but not fervent zealous religious ones. religion as blunt ritual as magic is much better than spiritualism. noone wants you to feel like the divine presence has entered you, it's how you use those concepts to translate a certain view into the world..
D. H. Lawrence being a prime example.
Forster another.
Tradition is always the last gasp of the artisan with his own tools.
The problem with tradition is you always have to freeze-frame it in aspic to make it coherent.
This is why I prefer doctrines to tradition. Doctrines are violent and straightahead, traditions are conformist. the acidheads were mainly traditional, that's why Manson et al were able to carve out a space. 99.9% of people use psychedelia for spiritual experiences but not fervent zealous religious ones. religion as blunt ritual as magic is much better than spiritualism. noone wants you to feel like the divine presence has entered you, it's how you use those concepts to translate a certain view into the world..
deep dark resonating acid signifies this doctrinal purity for me. that zoning in aspect into the totality of the psychic field of experience rather than the overt palpable aspects of the human psyche. More Rakim than Doug E Fresh.
it is not a supression of trauma but its decentring to the level of the rational kernel undergirding the fear. Abolish psychiatry and abolish the therapist.
it is not a supression of trauma but its decentring to the level of the rational kernel undergirding the fear. Abolish psychiatry and abolish the therapist.