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Thread: Extinction Rebellion

  1. #301
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    Which part?!

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    I, like anyone else whose heart is not made of stone,
    laughed gleefully at that footage.

    That's not the point.
    Well yeah, it was quite funny to watch, but frustrating at the same time.

    I dunno if this conversation is really going anywhere because you've fallen back to your "You're missing the point" position like you do when you're on the wind-up rather than interesting in discussing something.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    As far as I can see, not too many of us here other than OME are doing very much about this in the real world in response to that ticking clock. Why is that?

    That's the question that I'm more interested in.
    I think this is a great question.

    XR does seem inaccessible to people - even people like me. This ties in with the resentment from "ordinary" people. How do you manage to pay your rent/mortgage/bills whilst living in a tent or glued to a tube train or standing by the Bank of England in the rain, for days on end. Or from prison.

    A lot of us probably DO do individualised things to try and put the brakes on climate change. But that isn't enough.

    Is there a space for collective action that isn't the preserve of the hyper activist young or safely retired middle class people?

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    They know the middle class in this country is still powerful, not as powerful as it once was, but still hugely influential. To quote Corpsey again "the communists have been waiting all over a 100 years for the proles to kickstart a revolution and it hasn't happened. The middle class need to take matters into their own hands they are the revolutionary class. The middle class is the fulcrum of power."
    With all respect to Corpsey, the middle class can't make this country grind to a halt. Parts of the tube network can be shutdown by protest (or something terrible like 7/7).

    But there is only one group of people who have successfully and repeatedly shut down the entire network and that is the tube workers.

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    Also, finally - all movements make mistakes and it was inevitable that someone would do something stupid under the XR banner eventually.

    What's so frustrating is XR's insistence on dismissing previous protest movements - so they can't even learn from their mistakes.

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  7. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    Yes most people have 'more pressing concerns' how do you mobilise those who don't and what action do you take? It's just a fun thought experiment. Strategise.
    war is probably the most effective way to mobilise people. i think that is why trump is possibly provoking the situation with iran right now. a war would really help him. but obviously you need a state to provoke or initiate war, so the next best thing would be for a sovereign state to take on the XR manifesto in a committed way, which isn't gonna happen anytime soon.

    other than that, it's rioting (ie direct action against state legitimacy) i suppose, which is what some of them are already trying?

  8. #307
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    I don't know that that's true. A civil service strike would have more impact than a tube strike

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    i'll tell you what there was a ER procession down Church St the other day and the drumming was unbelievaby bad, they paused and messed up the rhythm before the first beat, as if they were doing it on purpose, surely you have to practice to be that bad. if i can't dance i don't want your revolution!!!

  10. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Well yeah, it was quite funny to watch, but frustrating at the same time.

    I dunno if this conversation is really going anywhere because you've fallen back to your "You're missing the point" position like you do when you're on the wind-up rather than interesting in discussing something.
    ok fair enough. The truth is that I can't tell to what extent this is a wind-up. Certainly there is an element of provocation. I decided to pick up corpseys idea for fun, just to play around with it but it became a way to explore the field of possibilities, to actually enter into the strategic process. Without a position it's very difficult to do that. Once I had adopted that position I started to find it quite compelling. I think there is a lot of truth in it. It's not an unassailable position, but it has its strengths.

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    I didn't think the Middle class can keep palming their dirty work off onto the proletariat, whatever the proletariat may be. If they want a revolution they will have to conduct it themselves

  12. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    Also, finally - all movements make mistakes and it was inevitable that someone would do something stupid under the XR banner eventually.

    What's so frustrating is XR's insistence on dismissing previous protest movements - so they can't even learn from their mistakes.
    This is true but the reason for this is that they are deprived of our crucial and decisive input. Precisely the reason that from here on in we are taking the reins. Specifically me and John.

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  14. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyaldrin View Post
    Attachment 1603

    does anyone know if this is real?
    People are definitely doing it..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    I think this is a great question.

    XR does seem inaccessible to people - even people like me. This ties in with the resentment from "ordinary" people. How do you manage to pay your rent/mortgage/bills whilst living in a tent or glued to a tube train or standing by the Bank of England in the rain, for days on end. Or from prison.

    A lot of us probably DO do individualised things to try and put the brakes on climate change. But that isn't enough.

    Is there a space for collective action that isn't the preserve of the hyper activist young or safely retired middle class people?
    I wonder about my own resistance to getting involved at all - I've definitely not been super-involved politically over the past decade, but have been to enough protests/actions that to go to another few in the service of XR would not be outside my comfort zine.

    It's of course very easy to rationalise not acting in any given situation, and what many people (including me) are doing all the time on all kinds of issues. So very easy to self-deceive.

    For me, with XR, the rationalisation is firstly similar to yours, a feeling that any organisation that asks such sacrifices is beginning to operate a bit like a cult, and so scares me a bit and involves practical sacrifices I'm not wiling to make. I don't agree that their tactics are the right ones, or safe. Secondly that I don't think I'd like many of the people in XR; yet this doesn't stand up to scrutiny, as the three or four people I know who are involved, I like (but also differ politically from). Thirdly, that I instinctively don't like things that aren't 'joined up' politically, because I find them liable to be mad (see point 1), and XR doesn't seem joined up.

    At the same time - I agree that individualised reaction is not enough, and the reaction to climate change needs to be systematic and organised collectively, so I'm glad XR exists. Maybe in time it will seek to build bridges with other organisations.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 19-10-2019 at 03:15 PM.

  16. #314
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    Roger Hallam calling the holocaust "just another fuckary in human history" is all the rage right now in Germany. A renowed publisher is pulling the german version of a book of his ready for publishing this autumn at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    Roger Hallam calling the holocaust "just another fuckary in human history" is all the rage right now in Germany. A renowed publisher is pulling the german version of a book of his ready for publishing this autumn at the moment.
    I was wondering whether he's still in prison, I've not seen him around recently

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