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Thread: Extinction Rebellion

  1. #31
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    Absolutely. But I think danger is to assume that substantive change is what the organisation wants, rather than just some vague 'rebellion' to satisfy ego. Apparently one of lead ppl (uk based) was on tv saying that in a few years her children wouldnt have enough to eat because of climate change. Um.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 20-04-2019 at 06:54 AM.

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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by muser View Post
    Still no-one has learnt how this kind of protesting does nothing but to push the average working class folk away from wanting to engage with anything they're saying.
    what if they're controlled opposition and this is precisely the goal?
    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It says bless the lads and it means bless the lads.
    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i don't know, probably some marxist cultural theory or something
    https://manifestacionesoterica.bandcamp.com/

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by muser View Post
    I think they'd have allot more impact, and less of a high crusty ratio of supporters, if they chose singular concrete changes, policies, something to latch on to. Go at them one by one. As far as I'm aware it's just "we need something to be done", there's no concrete end goal there, the government needs specific pressures to take specific actions.
    One concrete demand I'm aware of is making the UK carbon neutral by 2025. Although I don't know if they have any idea how that might be achieved without destroying the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by muser View Post
    It's why climate change denial is so pervasive on the right.
    Well, that and the vast sums that petrochem firms have spent on disinformation intended to undermine the scientific concensus on pollution and climate change.
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  5. #34
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    I went to Waterloo Bridge yesterday and it was a very Green Fields at Glastonbury vibe with some of the very worst folk music I've ever heard in my life being played live. Seems a bit of a weird contrast to the normal London image and fashionability haze but sniping aside, I like what they're doing. My heart sunk a bit seeing a fucking SWP front stall, I can't remember what they're calling themselves now, I looked away in disgust. These people are the fucking lice in the hair of any decent social movement, they get everywhere, just fuck off. Re. the arrests, I sort of think this phase of the battle has been won - in terms of changing the conversation and generating attention - and I hope that now there's a strategic retreat rather than a pointless struggle for control of the sites. XR have said it's only going to be a 2 week thing anyway.

    I get that people should have a suspicion of the police, especially when things GET REAL - which I'd anticipate happening later this week, or in the next round of protests but I'm also tired of macho wankers enacting their hostility to authority on protests. The whole black bloc smash things up approach. Allied with the children's school strike I think we're seeing the emergence of a different constituency protesting and I welcome it, even if it is nice middle class Glastonbury people. Would be nice if this continued for a while and most importantly, had impact without the usual argy bargy. I can but dream.

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  7. #35
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    A related thought - what is weird, and perhaps animating things to some degree - is how screwy the weather has been with the recent heatwave in Feb. It makes the arguments of climate change deniers eems utterly irrelevant, would like to see them roasted a lot more for this ('scuse pun).

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post
    what if they're controlled opposition and this is precisely the goal?
    Controlled by whom, or what?

    This sort of ultra-cynicism is the death of any movement that could effect any meaningful change.
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  9. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    This sort of ultra-cynicism is the death of any movement that could effect any meaningful change.
    catchphrase.
    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It says bless the lads and it means bless the lads.
    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i don't know, probably some marxist cultural theory or something
    https://manifestacionesoterica.bandcamp.com/

  10. #38
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    Hold on - so the choice of the puppet masters behind XR is to fuck the movment up by making them - too crustie for the normies!? My God, it's such a nefarious strategy, it might just work. Are there no depths to which they won't stoop? Cut to dimly lit room, cigar smoke- "Let's get Afro-Celtic Soundsystem to play Oxford Street - Joe Public will be eating out of our hands!'ll be beggin for more flights!"

    More seriously, and sorry to take the piss, but I hate the way that conspiracy is so often the first recourse in any discussion, even though there's no evidence. To judge from history, police infiltration will certainly happen to XR if it's not started already. But to say that such infiltration is already shaping the movment in such a oddly specific yet still useless way is misguided I think. Most of the police exposed as infiltrating eco-groups in recent years gathered intelligence on specific campaigns rather than shaped overall strategy IIRC - open to correction if I'm wrong here.

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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Absolutely. But I think danger is to assume that substantive change is what the organisation wants, rather than just some vague 'rebellion' to satisfy ego. Apparently one of lead ppl (uk based) was on tv saying that in a few years her children wouldnt have enough to eat because of climate change. Um.
    I was told that one of the organisers was involved in climate related treaty negotations at quite a high level. Can't remember the name though but I'll try and verify.

  13. #40
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    It was Farhana Yamin: https://twitter.com/farhanaclimate?lang=en

    She helped to secure amends to the Paris Agreement that work for less developed countries.
    Interview with her here: https://www.ft.com/content/d74b437f-...1-c5fd965b4710
    I don't think that the movement as a whole is "naive" despite the face paint and samba drumming.
    Last edited by DannyL; 20-04-2019 at 10:34 AM.

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  15. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Controlled by whom, or what?

    This sort of ultra-cynicism is the death of any movement that could effect any meaningful change.
    It's the Russians again, it's pretty cool over there anyway they'll be alright

  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Apparently one of lead ppl (uk based) was on tv saying that in a few years her children wouldnt have enough to eat because of climate change. Um.
    There is a strong possibility that this may be true. Food systems are particularly vulnerable and there's been virtually no preparation, no strategic grain stores, no land appropriation, no contingency planning.

    Absent of radical change there's shit coming down the line that makes every war and plague in human history look like a cake walk.

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  18. #43
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    Depends what you mean by "a few years". If food prices carry on rising by a few percent a year for the foreseeable future, then the very wealthy will continue to be unaffected, the middling well off will have to cut back on foreign holidays, there will be further rises in the use of food banks for the poor in developed countries and, as usual, it'll be in developing countries where people suffer most.

    A neglected aspect of the food security problem is that developed countries could easily absorb a rise in the cost of raw food products and still get foods to consumers at lower prices if we didn't depend on the massively inefficient supermarket retail system, which leads to about a third of all food that's produced being wasted.
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  19. #44
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    some comforting findings on this earth day...

    U.S. Nuclear Power Plants Werenít Built for Climate Change

    According to a Bloomberg review of correspondence between the commission and plant owners, 54 of the nuclear plants operating in the U.S. werenít designed to handle the flood risk they face. Fifty-three werenít built to withstand their current risk from intense precipitation; 25 didnít account for current flood projections from streams and rivers; 19 werenít designed for their expected maximum storm surge. Nineteen face three or more threats that they werenít designed to handle.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...usinessweek-v2

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  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    There is a strong possibility that this may be true. Food systems are particularly vulnerable and there's been virtually no preparation, no strategic grain stores, no land appropriation, no contingency planning.
    Be happy to read more about this (I mean that genuinely, rather than sarcastically).

    The underlying factor that annoys me is the focus in XR upon what will happen to 'us', whilst the ravages of climate change will affect those in developing countries first. Added to the ongoing spectacle of white middle class people marginalising the concerns of anyone who dares to point out the lack of sensitivity within XR to difference (thus continuing the work of centuries), it dilutes what is in other ways a powerful movement. And then sending people to get arrested many of whom are incredibly naive about possible consequences.

    Anyway, it's always the same old shit. People convince themselves they're morally superior through doing what is in many ways good work, and use this as a cover to totally ignore points of difficulty with what they're doing (and castigate those raising these genuine difficulties as 'spoiling' or somesuch).

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