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Thread: Retrocholia

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    Well the future is going to be bloody which ever way you slice it
    distinguish between "the future" and an individual's future

    the former, sure, as we've talked about many times, plus the climate change sword of Damocles

    however I took OP to be about the latter, if in relation to the former - experiencing art is, to me, about one's own impermanence

    not that exercise of power and creation of culture aren't intertwined, but we're talking about feelings

    it's a different thing to say "wow, the world is garbage" than to say "nothing, including me, has a future", with different resulting feelings

  2. #32
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    having no future being to me the ultimate affirmation of life. acceptance without resignation, live while you're alive.

    it's different from things in the world that can be struggled against with hope of success, be it Trump, Brexit, social injustice, whatever. there the challenge is more resisting cynicism.

    it's possible I'm misreading Corpsey's OP, or framing it in my own way.

    thx for putting me in august co of Eden + Droid btw. I am quite anti-"proper music bollix". If anything I'm guilty of being too anti-proper music bollix. I wish I knew less than the little proper stuff I do.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    distinguish between "the future" and an individual's future

    the former, sure, as we've talked about many times, plus the climate change sword of Damocles

    however I took OP to be about the latter, if in relation to the former - experiencing art is, to me, about one's own impermanence

    not that exercise of power and creation of culture aren't intertwined, but we're talking about feelings

    it's a different thing to say "wow, the world is garbage" than to say "nothing, including me, has a future", with different resulting feelings

    well i think that's super relative now. a regis downwards thing, if u played it to someone and didn't tell them it was 96, they might say it's future.

    I agree with you in that we're basically living the future. we've got all the technology. we're hearing normal sounds, these sounds are not radically new. maybe the last radically *new* thing was wiley's beats. that was still the tail end of internet 1.0 times for most of us.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    what else is "Ozymandias" about? and it's real-life predecessors, the armies of Alexander stumbling across the ruins of old Assyria. all glory is fleeting.
    I suppose what I felt in that cafe was something like the opposite of the Ozymandias effect, actually - not the impermanence of the past but the suffocating permanence.

    Which is fairly absurd, in light of the sort of ancient history evoked in that poem, when we're talking about a song that's only about 20 years old.

    Not that I don't feel the existential dread you're talking about of course - I've noticed lately how OLD some of the celebrities from my youth are beginning to look.

  6. #35
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    Not that I don't feel the existential dread you're talking about of course - I've noticed lately how OLD some of the celebrities from my youth are beginning to look.
    That one is a powerful reminder of mortality. I feel very sad every time I seem some ruined heartthrob from my youth. Pathetic really cos everyone else through history has faced this or something like, but - as with everything obviously - now it's happening to me it feels so much more real and personal.

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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes_ View Post
    Choon of the day.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    I suppose what I felt in that cafe was something like the opposite of the Ozymandias effect, actually - not the impermanence of the past but the suffocating permanence.
    it's one of those philosophical things where - if you pursue it enough - opposites become/are actually the same thing, I think (maybe it's a dialectic? I've never read Hegel)

    i.e. awareness of each individual thing's impermanence contains within it also awareness of suffocating permanence of that thing's non-being, and so one's own non-being

    and/or the collective weight of impermanence of things, or the idea of their impermanence, is a suffocating, inescapable weight, if it weighs on one

    this sounds literally crazy, but I used to get existentially nauseous thinking about things like: no human could hope to learn even a small fraction of the totality of human knowledge

    I think perhaps retrocholia is a shallower (not in a bad way) reflection of that deeper dread?

  11. #39
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    perhaps it could be a matter of a) it's easier for artists to find inspiration in the past than to try and be new/original, and b) the internet allows immediate access to all aspects of the past from which to work from.

    some artists (particularly those looking for commercial success) probably feel they have a greater chance of success if they riff off something their fans already know and like from the past than if they try something new.

    also, with age comes the natural sense of having seen/heard it all before (usually done better!).
    Last edited by Leo; 12-01-2019 at 04:05 AM.

  12. #40
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    hey corpsey, came across this bit in Camus that made me think of retrocholia

    "Knowing that there are no victorious causes, I have a liking for lost causes: they require an uncontaminated soul, equal to its defeat as to its temporary victories. For anyone who feels bound up with this world's fate, the clash of civilizations has something agonizing about it. I have made that anguish mine at the same time I wanted to join in. Between history and the eternal I have chosen history because I like certainties. Of it at least, I am certain, and how can I deny this force crushing me?"

    (should be obv but just in case nb that "clash of civilizations" here has nothing to do with the post-Cold War Huntington conception except in the most indirect sense)
    Last edited by padraig (u.s.); 16-01-2019 at 04:40 PM.

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  14. #41
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    I know you all are in full-on Brexit meltdown rn, and rightly so

    but don't forget to take a break from the crushing uncertainty of political and economic existential dread to experience the crushing uncertainty of individual existential dread

    and remember, you could be dead! so by that standard things are going pretty well. -a friendly life-affirming reminder from your intermittent internet acquaintance

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  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    and remember, you could be dead! so by that standard things are going pretty well. -a friendly life-affirming reminder from your intermittent internet acquaintance
    Or going pretty badly, depending on how existential you want to get.

  17. #43

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    Retrocholia X SIMS-Mall Fluorescence Benzo-haze

    Good thread. I've often said, to rolled eyes, that there is a certain window of Pop history that is repeated ad-infinitum in the Malls and Highstreets of vacuous mainstream consumerism. Think TopShop, H&M, HEMA, ZARA, Costa etc... The OST is Ricky Martin's La Vida Loca, Leanne Rimes' Can't Fight The Moonlight, Aguilera's Genie In A Bottle (never, the newer stuff), Early Britney - never the later pseudo- S&M bangers. I think La Roux, who I like, as slipped into this commercial perma-din. Emo soft-rock, Fall Out Boy etc, Avril Lavigne feature too... Sugar Babes, Lilly Allen, Sophie Ellis Bextor....

    Oh - and a load of Daft Punk and M&S advert vibe Sigala with that awful X-factor phonic affect wretching the lyrics out post Winehouse faux-soul...
    Last edited by you; 18-01-2019 at 05:08 PM.

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