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Thread: 'chillwave continuum'?

  1. #16
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    it's basically bourgeois concrete with the strikingly visceral immediacy of the post-war era of concrete abscent though isn't it? like, if we are talking about the transformation from formal to real domination where the worker no longer exists and only the proletarian remains, in a very real sense this can be boiled down to the artist no longer exists but the advertiser does.

    Insofar as communism emerging out of the real movement of things, communist aesthetics long proclaimed the death of the author before barthes and them lot discovered it. the problem is communism will also abolish advertising as advertising contains the ingredients of all politics, and the transformation of those politics in crisis to total democratic domination and fascism. And i feel this is the weakness of this stuff, it is too much based on the personality gimmics of internet 2.0 as opposed to the somewhat more depersonalised communality of internet 1.0.

    https://intransigence.org/2018/10/22...-the-internet/

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Dunno who this guy is but he doesn't know shit about ambient music.
    http://www.moredarkthanshark.org/eno...med-mar04.html

  4. #18

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    wtf is this thread about again?

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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post
    i'll maybe try to put a mix together
    I made a bunch of mixes at the time, i would cover for an indie night back then and when we were both approached to run a weekend thing i decided i would use it as a platform to play a lot of it as a warmup and then let the other guy do his thing. I made 3 mixes that were punted about on cds and completely alienated anybody from engaging with the concept at all.

    A complete failure, but i just enjoy making concept mixes around stupid themes, so i was happy.

    Pt 1
    https://www.mixcloud.com/beezerholme...ill-mix-aug10/

    Pt 2 (well, seemingly part of part 2, and i don't know where the rest of them are)
    https://www.mixcloud.com/beezerholme...-mix-no2-pt-1/

    I hope this is helpful in some way...

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  8. #20
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    ^ certainly helpful for me at least! I've never listened to any significant quantity of this stuff before (let alone in a well-organized way).

    maybe a dumb question, but does the chillwave continuum you have in mind entail a successive series of genres in the same ways as the original nuum? if so what are the main ones? I guess chillwave to vaporwave is the really widely acknowledged connection. (probably redundant to even mention.) it seems to me like a lot of the main artists and lines of influence involved in this stuff have been pretty scrupulously mapped out, but the more formal aesthetic developments and 'zones' as you put it, not so much. (I mean, maybe they've been given meme names, but not much beyond that.) that's the most interesting part for me personally.

    from what I've heard: in terms of the most popular/"significant" releases, a lot of vaporwave in 2010-12 had a very wild sampladelic quality (opn, vektroid, internet club, skeleton) even when it wasn't eccojams--whereas by the mid 2010s things got a lot glossier, more like proper electronic/ambient made with expensive softsynths and actual mastering. (I think telepath is the one who almost sounds like an echospace project?) by this point sampling is more used to get a "cinematic" effect than an esoteric, psychedelic one. maybe there's an analogous shift in the cover art? earlier art is often more collage-like or found images, but later covers look like you could find them on artstation. but that's all just one direction of many that things have gone in I guess. you mentioned vektroid as an example of how this stuff has evolved, and I do really like the direction(s) she's gone in recently--probably some of my favorite music from any era really.

    lol'd at seeing ott cause anger/annoyance as always
    Last edited by mvuent; 16-02-2019 at 04:02 AM.

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  10. #21

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    i used to be really upset about the shift from sample detournement to nicely cleaned up spotify ambient because it felt political but now i can't be bothered. it'd be cool to see small online communities self-consciously continue the sample and collage exploration, though. i found this stuff on rym in 2012 before vaporwave, chillwave or hypnagogic pop were genre tags there looking for sound collage from the 2010's. alex grey (deep magic/dreamcolour, heat wave, dj purple image, d/p/i) is another example of a very interesting evolution. he went from looper jams into screwy collages into something i'd almost describe as 'musique surface digital' (borrowing a term from wakesleep), inscrutable microsampling or unnerving/unlikely macrosampling juxtaposed w atonal electronics

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  12. #22

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    the obstacle to mapping this stuff out, getting people excited about it again seems to be a general malaise and cynicism, regret that we've invested so much in the internet creatively in the past decade and (seemingly) gotten so little in return.

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  14. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    And i feel this is the weakness of this stuff, it is too much based on the personality gimmics of internet 2.0 as opposed to the somewhat more depersonalised communality of internet 1.0.[/url]
    is something like "internet club" or "prism corp." not, like an anonymous collective gesture though? to my mind vaporwave in its early stages felt like a reaction to the personality gimmicks of earlier stuff

  15. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    it's basically bourgeois concrete with the strikingly visceral immediacy of the post-war era of concrete abscent though isn't it?
    that's what woebot used to say about ae, and he didn't get them at all

    and yeah, surely the first vaporwave artists were very enamored with internet 1.0 and the facelessness of it. arguably vektroid et al releasing albums under so many different pseudonyms is what gave the impression that it was an actual "genre" at all; I think people became interested partly because it seemed more like a depersonalized movement than it even really was.

    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post
    i used to be really upset about the shift from sample detournement to nicely cleaned up spotify ambient because it felt political but now i can't be bothered. it'd be cool to see small online communities self-consciously continue the sample and collage exploration, though. i found this stuff on rym in 2012 before vaporwave, chillwave or hypnagogic pop were genre tags there looking for sound collage from the 2010's. alex grey (deep magic/dreamcolour, heat wave, dj purple image, d/p/i) is another example of a very interesting evolution. he went from looper jams into screwy collages into something i'd almost describe as 'musique surface digital' (borrowing a term from wakesleep), inscrutable microsampling or unnerving/unlikely macrosampling juxtaposed w atonal electronics
    rec is very appreciated, thanks. tbh I've never really understood what is supposed to be so subversive about vaporwave politically (I barely even know what detournement is lol). is there some kind of 'wake up call' aspect to it that I've missed? but will try to articulate what I find interesting about the earlier stuff and recent vektroid at some point, just in case there's any interesting agreement/disagreement there...
    Last edited by mvuent; 16-02-2019 at 08:27 PM.

  16. #25

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    the political aspect is tiredness overextension confusion, feeling boxed out of any 'wake up call' meaning anything

  17. #26

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    Was chillwave ever actually a thing? I remember there was indie music with somewhat similar vibe around the end of the 00s and journos/blogers trying to make it a thing, but it never really took hold & soon enough another group of music journalists were saying it was never a thing anyway, labelled it bourgeois, at which everyone seemed to rather embarrassed and dissociated.

    Vaporwave had its own style, aesthetic, philosophy and it has been one of the few genres of the internet age to actually have enough about it to survive in that ADHD world. Besides bubbling out a similar ideas pot, and stealing from Dj Screw, I don't see too much linking what vaporwave became with what chillwave was claimed to be. Besides that is, the things that have been said and written about them. Musically what does reheated dream-pop-shoegaze actually have to do with pitched down smooth jazz or 90s vgm?

  18. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trillhouse View Post
    Musically what does reheated dream-pop-shoegaze actually have to do with pitched down smooth jazz or 90s vgm?
    bubbling petit-bourgeois/labor aristocrat resentment

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  20. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I remember the term "hypnagogic pop" being chucked around a lot with regard to that stuff.
    Yeah, I'm probably missing the point. Hypnagogic & hauntology seem like better labels to discuss, although they're rather large umbrellas. I guess that's inevitable when talking about music defined by a shared approach and why I find the discussion a little wooly as a result.

  21. #29

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    hypnagogia and hauntology are more descriptive yes but chillwave is a fucking hipster runoff joke and has a Ring to it

  22. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post
    the obstacle to mapping this stuff out, getting people excited about it again seems to be a general malaise and cynicism, regret that we've invested so much in the internet creatively in the past decade and (seemingly) gotten so little in return.

    We (me and my mates at the time, i can't hang onto mates for some weird reason) spoke about this when i used to spend 40 on weed every day. ah how times change...

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