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Thread: All good music comes from religion

  1. #31
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    I'm not sure if that's right. anti-state communism, for instance, is a belief because it's unlikely to happen, but that doesn't make it a religion, you could argue that about state communism convincingly, or politics. similarly shamanism is such a loose term does it even make sense to call it a religion? I really don't think so.

    Something like sufism is part of the organised islamic religion, in that the truly mavric
    sufis would not be considered sufis by the majority of the populous or the ruling classes.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    I think droid, and third, are on a right track

    I imagine devotion specifically in the process of artistic creation

    you literally have to be devoted to this task. it's hard and mostly thankless. making music is logistically difficult (at least, I find it to be).

    as well as devotion to the creative urge. idk, it's one of those unquantifiable things. I guess it shares that with religious belief. you have it or you don't.

    and early religion, as I understand it, much closer to spiritual ecstasy. the Pythia at Delphi, mystery cults, and going further back animism, shamanism.

    this really gets into history of religion and comparative religion beyond I'm sure any of our expertise

    but something about scriptures (dogma), religious infrastructure, etc getting away from pure worship

    oops i think we posted at the same time. yeah agreed with this.

  3. #33
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    i.e. "You shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, there you cannot come"

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  5. #34
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    I might flip barty's initial premise around, and posit:

    the initial religious and artistic impulses come from a similar place (to explain the unexplainable/articulate the unarticulable, find something beyond one's own finite existence, etc)

    then I would be interested, I guess, in where and how the religious and artistic impulses

    at some point they were mostly one and the same

    that spins off in like a million potential interesting directions

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  7. #35
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    seeking, reaching, wanting to transcend. religion is based on these notions. all twisted now, of course. but that's the roots of the good shit for sure. was trying to get at that in the depths thread. "easier way to be in the world" is a good shout. if existence is suffering, art and music more than any for me, is a way to explore it and try to find ways to deal with it. whether it be embracing the storm, seeking solace or whatever floats your boat.

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    one we've discussed (or I've discussed, anyway) here before is the transposition of a specific spiritual ecstasy from religious (gospel) to secular (soul, disco, house)

    i.e. (these are all I think well-known and/or reposts but whatever they're all amazing tunes)





    Engineer: GOD




    etc ad inf

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    or going the other way my personal fave Spacemen 3 with their gospel influences and endless references to Jesus, the lord, etc


    in this case both literal and doubling as a metaphor for drugs (the ecstasy and agony of heroin), i.e. gospel as filtered thru The Velvet Underground

    their best record - Perfect Prescription - being essentially a pure distillation of that concept

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  12. #38
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    the bitter sweetness

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes_ View Post
    "easier way to be in the world"
    it surely is

    to maintain some kernel of that moment of spiritual ecstasy in every moment that follows, in the course of the unrelenting drudgery of life

    it's hard to hold onto but if it shines bright enough I find I mostly can

    I might call it the ecstasy of ambiguity, to paraphrase de Beauvoir

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    is it really a perversion though? in the UK our masjids are all very masculine and patriarchal. like we don't have something equivalent to women empowerment through the black church in our communities. There are outliers but that's all they are. 99% of masjids are very very conservative.

    Is this a perversion or more the idea that we have to relive the premodern past, which, by way of its very impossibility means an orthodoxy has to be codified and nuance erased? I don't think perversion is quite right here, something like Stalinism as it later developed would be a perversion (not that im a leninist but you know...) Even in the original edition of foundations of Leninism big moustache claimed that socialism in one country was not possible, that was later redacted. ISIS is also a perversion. Hamas? They are reactionary for sure but can you use the same term?

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    I mean qu'ran refers to abraham, Jacob and Moses as muslims. but muslim in prophets time meant hanif, submitter to God. otherwise the idea that Ibrahim could be muslim as we understood it after the umayyads is a load of tosh.

  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes_ View Post
    the bitter sweetness
    truly

    a minor Chicago legend, that one

    indicted for a massive pyramid scheme back in the 80s, still preaches in I believe (could be wrong) Hyde Park these days

  17. #43
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    If you define "good music" as music that goes beyond music as mere entertainment, then the thread-title-statement is correct in many occasions.

    There are similarities between devoted believers (of any religion) and devoted fans of certain genres (and/or bands, musicians). There is also this communal aspect of joy, to be in e group of like-minded devotees, which gives peopel a sense of strong community. And then there is also the aspect of concert or rave/party as an extra-ordinary time which transcends the drudgery of every day life. There is also this notion of the rockstar as a shaman-type figure.

  18. #44
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    All I know is the horrors of hell are best evoked, not by listening to black metal, but by listening to "Mr Blobby" on loop for ten minutes. There is no God there, only Blobby.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  19. #45
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    "how he could explain it? that he'd gazed upon frescoes in Tuscan sunlight, and found a different, easier way to be in the world?"
    This is good. The space, the limpidity of light, the weightlessness of bodies, the absence of tension and strain, the soothing, muted colours, the implicit warmth (but not heat) in Fra Angelico's world (not just in the world of his paintings but actually in his air, under his sun and sky) could give that to you. Something you could take away with you. There is no striving there.

    Is it in the story of art that Gombrich contrasts two Rennassaice self portraits, an Italian and a German? And remarks on how the self conscious intensity (strain) projected in the German is entirely absent from the Italian.

    I think also of Pound talking about the climate the troubadours enjoyed which allowed "the nerve set open" not, as in harder climates, armoured and closed in. These are basic and to some extent forced bodily, primary orientations towards the world and certainly art can give you access to this level. Metaprogramming the human biocomputer as Lily had it.

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