thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I thought it was an open invitation just sit there, ready to discuss anything with anyone. I like that idea. It's a conversation space. This little patch of dogshit grass and dust. Just don't get over excited and don't take yourself too seriously.

I sometimes used to turn up at a take all comers football session in a park in Plaistow. It's utopian. Similar thing.

The ARG doesn't exist. that's the whole point. it's her dickhead mates stitching her up. I would have heard of the anti-reaction research group if they were an organisation with any pedigree orbiting the left.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
If this was done by the left there would be groups taking much, much more credit for this. they would even be open to ridicule and abuse. this is how they build their social capital, in fact DC Miller took most of his tips from the left. There is no arg. it didn't come into being to defend against fascists in working class areas, it has no (0) university presence, it has no presence in student unions or trade unions. It was not a regroupment or a split from any organisation, much less an anarchist one.

It's precisely anonymous because it doesn't exist.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
this is like playing the cops game. there's a reason why i never hung out with that arty wire crowd, most of them have practically no politics. I'm sorry, music is the least beneficial area to look for politics. musicians have better politics than most music journalists who are confused oxbridge types in the extreme.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
They might be hunted down by deathsquads of not-quite-left-enough academics. Still, you guys are premature talking about going, I don't think they have accepted it yet so it may not happen.

there are no deathsquads of left academics. most of them have horrible RP voices and talk about the deconstructed childlike sexuality of carly rae jepsen and fuck the same people within the same subculture. you think dubstep is insular? Leftism is like, 100x times worse.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Seriously?

I mean they aren't death squads though are they. it's all 1984 isn't it. no leftist will stick up for their mate when push comes to shove. it's kind of inherent to the thing.

Really that's the vantage ppoint from which modern secular culture should be criticised. leftism is not a tight social bond. it's weaker than what we've got here. a lot of what we are witnessing is comedy stalinism. and of course revival of stalinist aesthetics are conducive to neoliberalism this is why k-punk got it totally wrong with capitalist realism. capitalism today ideally desires *the strong state and the free economy* whereas socialism desires the old post-war economy.

both are wrong.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I just don't understand the whole rhetoric that goes betrayal of leftist ideals.

Those ideals never existed did they? there was nothing to betray. working class history is littered with numerous instances of people looking down on people less skilled or privileged than them. That isn't me slating all proles it's just an objective fact.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
acknowledging the fact that those ideals did not exist, will not exist, and are never going to exist is the first step to diagnosing the left's pathologies. but it's actually the hardest step. i mean, just look at me hehe, I'm a semi-schizophrenic wreck with no more friends in real life.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
But you get that I was specifically talking about "not very lefts" of the kind who might support Nina but be reviled by the actual left?
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
yeah. i'm just tired really. i can't even be bothered to think about it anymore.

Obviously being a muslim immigrant getting involved in any kind of right leaning stuff was off limits, well unless i was an unprincipled knucklehead like sajid javid with no honour for kith kin and kind willing to sell them out immediately. but that wasn't me. so i gravitated to the left initially but there was a quick wake up call, maybe too quick for some.
 
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catalog

Well-known member
these are interesting points you are making thirdform. you seem to be arguing for something beyond left and right (or i dunno, have i got that wrong?)

could you elaborate a bit more on this comment:

"and of course revival of stalinist aesthetics are conducive to neoliberalism this is why k-punk got it totally wrong with capitalist realism."

what do you mean by stalinist aesthetics, specifically, and why would they be conducive to neoliberalism? i can almost see it, but not quite, could do with some more detail.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
these are interesting points you are making thirdform. you seem to be arguing for something beyond left and right (or i dunno, have i got that wrong?)

I wouldn't say I'm beyond left and right. that is a fascist slogan after all. I'd say I'm far to the left of state socialism which doesn't really make me a leftist per se. Briefly I'm for anarchy but am not an anarchist. I still align with the communist camp for various reasons that are too tedious to go into here. put most simply i think marxism has a better explanation for its own political failures than a lot of anarchism. though of course the best anarchist currents are largely based on marx's analysis of capitalism.

could you elaborate a bit more on this comment:

"and of course revival of stalinist aesthetics are conducive to neoliberalism this is why k-punk got it totally wrong with capitalist realism."

what do you mean by stalinist aesthetics, specifically, and why would they be conducive to neoliberalism? i can almost see it, but not quite, could do with some more detail.

A) when you look at socialist revivals, bernie, corbyn, etc you can see that they do not plan to alter the make up of neoliberalism as a whole. a few small adjustments here and there, and a lot of hot air about welfare reform, but that's about it.
B) as i wrote to a friend:
people want to say there is a left liberal social democracy that is just a bit better than the right wing version but part of why hard core stalinism never took off here is because its surplus to requirements. It is literally unnecessary because there was never a large scale peasantry to industrialise. so it just ends up being strong authoritarian capitalist state authorities and institutions, and their concomitant cultural aestheticism. nothing more, nothing less.

Social democracy is always dictatorial, it's just that the one we have in the UK conceals its militarised dictatorial power inside the seductive glove of democracy.
 

Leo

Well-known member
third, with all due respect you seem to criticize everything. maybe everything does suck, or have its unique faults. no perspective or political position is 100% "good".

what, in your mind, is the ideal?
 

craner

Beast of Burden
i think marxism has a better explanation for its own political failures than a lot of anarchism.

If only you could break out of your Marxist mental prison, you'd be a superb aphorist. There's a Nietzschean desperate to burst free here.
 
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