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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    depends on A) the type of agreement, B) which people corresponding to what sort of relation agree C) whether the agreeing itself is holistic or has unspoken assumptions. D) how we are going to get to that level and whether we will end up still agreeing on the same core principles. E) whether we have organisational capacity that has rigid criteria for functioning. variables that no individual can decide on their own. It's not that I'm abdicating responsibility, it's just not possible for me to comprehend global capitalism in its totality. it's not possible for any individuals or small mystically defined groups of individuals, even the capitalists themselves.
    all true, agree. so, it does appear it's all a pipe dream!

  2. #452
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    you're saying that disparagingly. myths and dreams have motivated people to do both great and terrible things in the past. i wouldn't be so dismissive personally. A lot more human behaviour is based on myths and mystical insights than positivists and scientism types would grant. And you know I say that as a total materialist and a rationalist.
    Last edited by thirdform; 03-05-2019 at 09:05 PM.

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  4. #453
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    The early muslims believed in a myth. the early christians believed in a myth. doesn't make what they did any less real or heaven forbid 'batshit.' then you just turn into Dawkins. This is why i can't be atheist in an ideological sense. people say that ideological atheism can avoid scientism and a purported idea of rationality but it always ends up defaulting to that. I believe I can live without God so I'm only really atheist practicaly. and this doesn't diminish my appreciation for sages and prophets and mystics of all kinds, though I will of course quibble over many things.
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  6. #454
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    Sure, at the moment i would agree it's a pipedream, but many non-political things are as well.

    Just because it's a pipedream at the moment doesn't mean in the future it will always be so, though of course it always remaining a pipedream is a very likely possibility. no revolution was or will ever be an inevitable natural law.

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  8. #455
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    actually, it was said facetiously as opposed to disparagingly, hence the ! at the end. probably should have stated that more clearly.

    best part is you've stated a positive view, one based on hope.

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  10. #456

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    I'm actually far more dictatorial than that. abolish that country.
    down with liberal democracy

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  12. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    It's a bit of an assumption that they are even in London though? (I have no idea if they are or are not and can't be arsed reading it all tbh so maybe there is reason to suspect they are)

    I think it's quite naive to think that they will out themselves in a public place at a time you have specified.

    Possibly they believe that very bad things will happen to them if their identity is revealed. Or possibly they just like taking a pop at people on the internet without any accountability.

    I am guessing that nobody has turned up mob handed to any of your recent public appearances where they would have had you on the back foot, so I can't understand why they would bother with this but maybe I am wrong.

    Being a boring lefty I would suggest that you ask for a meeting with the people at The Wire and also contact the NUJ if you are a member.
    I have offered to pay for the train ticket of whoever wrote the Open Letter if they are not in London. I also don't actually expect whoever wrote it to actually turn up, but that's part of the point - what kind of world do we live in if people can post stuff online anonymously and try to wreck people's lives and jobs when they wouldn't or couldn't say it to their face? I would personally talk with anyone who wanted to attack me for things I've said or done - I have nothing to hide and if I've been wrong I would admit it. if we disagree we can talk about it. I have no desire to hurt anyone and I am not a violent person (though I would defend myself or otehrs if they were being attacked). You write 'perhaps they just like taking a pop at people on the internet without accountabilty' - well, it looks like it doesn't it! Great for them if they get a kick out of it, but what about the people they're attacking? Does their enjoyment outweigh our right not to be accused of things we haven't done, or our desire to keep our jobs?

    So far people haven't attacked me at any events I've done, no, though giving talks has become more anxious. I would respond as calmly and reasonably as I can to any criticism and attacks, but mainly people don't seem to do this in person. They just at a distance cut you out, ignore you, post stuff about you behind your back, or write to employers and organisers to get you removed. It's cowardly as hell. On The Wire front, there's no point in asking for a meeting - they refused to respond to all of my last emails calling for clarification and I had to get the editor I know best to personally confirm I'd been dropped. There's no way they'd agree to a meeting. They didn't even thank me for any of my work over the years, it was just like, 'if we ignore her, perhaps she'll go away!'

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  14. #458
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    Well if the point is to invite people who won't come then I guess it will be very successful. Then you can claim the moral high ground, probably.

    [...]

    I wasn't going to mention this but in the 1990s Andy Martin published an edition of his fanzine which was a 32 page rant about his misfortunes throughout his life. It concluded with an invitation to several of the former teachers at his secondary school to fight him outside Centerprise bookshop on a particular date and time. If I recall correctly he even sent several copies of the zine to his school. Of course they didn't show up, so he was able to denounce them as cowards in a future issue. It looked a bit mental to be honest, but the one positive thing that came out of it was that it was actually a damn fine piece of writing which has stayed with me.

    There isn't going to be a heroic showdown at high noon where you persuade people of your honour and your detractors are revealed as deformed evil fairground owners. The only route you have out of this is to keep writing, Nina - wherever it takes you. That's what you can do better than the anonymous bloggers, and most people here most definitely including me, and plonkers you seem to want to share stages and vidcasts with.

    But not for The Wire. I'm assuming that you weren't on a contract or anything with them so there is little that can be done if they don't wish to discuss it. You know better than I do that this is a profound downside to the generally shit situation of precarious employment. And why it's naive to think that you can be a free unbounded thinker-commentator with no consequences. Cf your yank lecturer mate who said the weird stuff about abortion and necrophilia.
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  16. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    On The Wire front, there's no point in asking for a meeting - they refused to respond to all of my last emails calling for clarification and I had to get the editor I know best to personally confirm I'd been dropped. There's no way they'd agree to a meeting. They didn't even thank me for any of my work over the years, it was just like, 'if we ignore her, perhaps she'll go away!'
    Wow, that is pathetic.

  17. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    Well if the point is to invite people who won't come then I guess it will be very successful. Then you can claim the moral high ground, probably.

    Similarly, it's good that you don't see yourself as being a violent person. But you are the only member of this forum that I have seen commit an act of violence.

    I wasn't going to mention this but in the 1990s Andy Martin published an edition of his fanzine which was a 32 page rant about his misfortunes throughout his life. It concluded with an invitation to several of the former teachers at his secondary school to fight him outside Centerprise bookshop on a particular date and time. If I recall correctly he even sent several copies of the zine to his school. Of course they didn't show up, so he was able to denounce them as cowards in a future issue. It looked a bit mental to be honest, but the one positive thing that came out of it was that it was actually a damn fine piece of writing which has stayed with me.

    There isn't going to be a heroic showdown at high noon where you persuade people of your honour and your detractors are revealed as deformed evil fairground owners. The only route you have out of this is to keep writing, Nina - wherever it takes you. That's what you can do better than the anonymous bloggers, and most people here most definitely including me, and plonkers you seem to want to share stages and vidcasts with.

    But not for The Wire. I'm assuming that you weren't on a contract or anything with them so there is little that can be done if they don't wish to discuss it. You know better than I do that this is a profound downside to the generally shit situation of precarious employment. And why it's naive to think that you can be a free unbounded thinker-commentator with no consequences. Cf your yank lecturer mate who said the weird stuff about abortion and necrophilia.
    I have zero moral high ground. I don't claim to be a good person or to have never done anything wrong. I don't even think I'm right about half the things I say. I'm just fucking sad about everything and wanted to sit in the park with people. I'm just sick of the internet and this person trying to destroy my life and other people going along with it. Thanks for the nice comments about the writing, and I'm pretty sure the guy I jokingly hit on the bus was ok with it, as we often messed about like that. I think people used to do more of that sort of thing. Andy Martin sounds like a good guy.

  18. #461
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    Why not start a thread here and talk through one or other of the things you've been thinking about recently? everyone here is Broadly sympathetic towards you, even if, like John, they're a bit pissed off or confused or disappointed or whatever. We like drugs and symbols and occultism and trees and bushes and flowers and clouds. We don't think flowers belong to nazis. Why not have a fun and useful conversation instead of this strange show trial one which no one is really enjoying. You keep coming on here so why not join in properly? Have a laugh. Play along.

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  20. #462
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    New character new personality emerge from chrysalis no more wire reviews, freed from institutional enslavement, having a laugh with the lads, back and forth banter on the forum, explicating psychedelic overview visions of the pulsating cosmos. All the lads going, "we just treat her as one of the lads, sometimes we forget she is not an actual lad, well. to us she is a lad" totally accepted in the boys club.

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  22. #463
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    I'm up for that luka - positive and beautiful and cosmic and whatnot. I'll maybe put together an opener after the meeting in park tomorrow when, whatever happens, which I'm sure will be nothing!, I want to move on, and even if people still keep trying to get me sacked or no-platformed or whatever I have to carry on and not get down about it all, and writing something with content rather than just trying to defend myself all the time is a much better idea for everyone heh

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  24. #464
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    Burgess Park Picnic Report please Nina. Ben Watson was threatening to go down with his band and soundtrack it but I think decided against it ultimately.

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    It was nice. Just a very few people, mainly women. I read a little statement and we had a little talk about talking and no-platforming. Then I went home. I've decided to get offline for a bit, just be outside and think and all that, but I really liked your idea luka. I think maybe in a few weeks I'll start a thread if I can get some thoughts together. I bascially am driving myself mad looking at stuff people are saying about me and it's getting too much so I've got rid of facebook and my website and I feel better already. I can't really care what people say about me on the internet anymore because it's upsetting and I can't respond to everything. If people want to keep using it to say stuff and get me removed from things I guess that's up to them but I just don't want to see it and I'll just deal with it when I get emails asking me about what people are saying or removing me from things. I just want to go outside and see people. I walk around and I just think 'where is all this stuff happening anyway? It's not really real and no one cares, and no one ever dies wishing they'd spent more time on the internet'.

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