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Thread: The Dissensus Framework

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    Even reading about it on Wikipedia is giving me a headache.
    the important thing to remember with philosophy or critical theory and all that stuff is that it is the art of saying something unremarkable or simple in as convoluted a way ass possible so as to appear smart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    in literature i assume it's far harder to achieve than in music. what have you read that does in fact achieve it?
    "An author in his book must be like God in the universe, present everywhere and visible nowhere." - Flaubert

    “The artist, like the God of creation, remains within or behind or beyond or above his handiwork, invisible, refined out of existence, indifferent, paring his fingernails”

    ― James Joyce

    And Eliot's famous essay on impersonality:

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/art...ividual-talent

    These are some jumping off points. Also, naturally, Yeats's theory of masks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    the important thing to remember with philosophy or critical theory and all that stuff is that it is the art of saying something unremarkable or simple in as convoluted a way ass possible so as to appear smart.
    I think some minds are just made for certain types of thinking, and mine wasn't made for Wittgenstein's. I'm irrational, illogical by nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    I think some minds are just made for certain types of thinking, and mine wasn't made for Wittgenstein's. I'm irrational, illogical by nature.
    you're a whizz at close reading though. you can take something and pull a million different ideas from each part of it.
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    http://tseliot.com/preoccupations/Impersonality

    "The world of a great poetic dramatist is a world in which the creator is everywhere present, and everywhere hidden."

    But also, I think readers selves are somewhat obliterated by reading, or can be. Their selves, that is, as a subconsciously maintained (physiologically underpinned) fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post

    These are some jumping off points. Also, naturally, Yeats's theory of masks.
    “No face…”

    Choosing an archetypal UK drill track- one that does little to differentiate itself- is difficult insofar as tracks in that vein are so plentiful. But that’s the point. Drill is changing-same music (or, to borrow drill’s vernacular, chinging-same music). It occupies a distinct, almost uniform, sound world of muffled, funeral-march pianos, swampy bass, freckled drums and seraphic reverb. When played for any lengthy amount of time it becomes meditative and immersive. Repetition becomes mantra like. What can sound like apathy can also sound like surrender. For all the lyrical content surrounding physical death, its sonics impart a kind of ego death that chimes with drill’s aesthetic of anonymity. The collective gang identity trumps that of the individual. Faces are masked. Clothes are uniform. Voices are made devoid of any defining traits; mumbled with little variety of timbre or intonation.

    Individual character is so stripped away that in rather dystopian fashion many artists adopt names that resemble codes more than they do nicknames as though they’ve tacitly internalized the disposability of their own lives in gang warfare. Monikers such as C2 and M24 are indistinguishable from gang tags like M20 and 150 when presented side-by-side in YouTube titles. The group O’Lanna take this to its logical extreme with each of its rapper’s simply adopting a number to add to the ‘surname’ O’Lanna; their track ‘Wheel It There’ is accredited to rappers 3 O’Lanna, 6 O’Lanna, 7 O’Lanna and 8 O’Lanna. These codified forms of identity have rather inconspicuous and bureaucratic origins. Groups 67 and 86 derive their names from Tulse Hill’s 020 867 telephone code. Moscow 17 and 12World likewise garnered their group names from their respective SE17 and W12 postcodes while Zone 2 arrived at theirs via Transport For London’s five pricing zones. Drill’s numerical preoccupation speaks to the genre’s reductive view of human life. Deaths, prison sentences and gang aggrandizement are often abstracted into mathematical sums as in Loski’s ‘Hazards’ where he mocks the death of four members of rival gang 150 by rapping “they say 150, but it’s 146 instead”. Ironically enough the code “IC3”, used by British law enforcement to denote black suspects, is routinely appropriated by drill artists. They assimilate and weaponise this depersonalizing taxonomy against their opponents. NPK’s ‘Talk is Cheap’ features the lyrics “black blade on an IC3, run down four other IC3’s” while Poky raps “stuck in the hood just trying to survive, pop four IC3’s in a ride” is his song ‘D Kamp’. B Side even go so far as to title a song ‘IC3’.

    “Still cutting shapes in the rave…”

    This blurring of boundaries between the individual- and collective- self simultaneously echoes the collectivism of the rave dream and is its moral antithesis. The divergent use of piano in rave and drill is telling. Though central to each genre, in rave the pianos were crisp, staccato bursts of utopian sunshine whereas in drill they’re viscous, nihilistic, murky and grey.
    drill
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  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post

    But also, I think readers selves are somewhat obliterated by reading, or can be. Their selves, that is, as a subconsciously maintained (physiologically underpinned) fiction.
    pantheism- the expansion of the self outwards achieving a kind of ego death.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
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    It's interesting to consider that the archetypal individualist rapper (boasting about his cars, mansions, etc.) might on some level be disguising their real complicated self in a character or set of cultural symbols and signifiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    And Eliot's famous essay on impersonality:

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/art...ividual-talent
    There's an essay on Messi which uses this as a framework.

    Tradition and the Individual Superstar - http://www.runofplay.com/2011/02/09/...ual-superstar/

    Next Saturday. Cold. The cacophony of metal cleats. Lionel Messi is in a Blaugrana shirt, standing in the tunnel before the game and thinking. He might be thinking about his coach’s pre-game instructions. He might be thinking about the abuse that awaits him from opposing fans. And he might be thinking about how itchy his right shin guard is. But the one thing that Lionel Messi will not be thinking about is the only thing that is guaranteed to happen every single time he plays for Barcelona. Once he steps on the field, he will give up his self-contained existence and open himself up to immediate evaluation, unfair speculation, and comparison to his peers and his predecessors. Once he steps foot on the field, he will shed his individuality and assume the 112 years of his club’s existence, Total Football, tiki-taka—tradition. Once Lionel Messi steps on the field next Saturday, in the cold, amidst the clatter of cleats, he will become modern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    It's interesting to consider that the archetypal individualist rapper (boasting about his cars, mansions, etc.) might on some level be disguising their real complicated self in a character or set of cultural symbols and signifiers.
    ego death by way of self-aggrandisement
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

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    On a base level, I suppose this is coming from somebody particularly self-loathing, but the self is a bit of a nightmare, isn't it? I mean the individual set of strengths and weaknesses that desires and fails, or achieves and is left only desiring more.

    If you haven't got anything to take your mind off the self you'll go nuts.

    But then, if you're a narcissist like Trump... I bet he doesn't listen to music, or read books, or have any interests not entirely orbiting around himself. Because he loves himself. But how many people do?

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    it's the ego and sense of achievement made manifest in the outside world. again, this speaks to pantheism.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
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    In Thomas Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow (1973), an engineer named Kurt Mondaugen enunciates a law of human existence: “Personal density…is directly proportional to temporal bandwidth.” The narrator explains:

    “Temporal bandwidth” is the width of your present, your now…. The more you dwell in the past and future, the thicker your bandwidth, the more solid your persona. But the narrower your sense of Now, the more tenuous you are.

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  20. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    But then, if you're a narcissist like Trump... I bet he doesn't listen to music, or read books, or have any interests not entirely orbiting around himself. Because he loves himself. But how many people do?
    I don't think I've ever seen him laugh, I can't even imagine him laughing.

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    It is interesting, his humourlessness. As you say, when he smirks, it's almost 'for the benefit of' the humans.

    What that might say about him, about his sense of a self, a self without cracks.

    It's why he's so comical a person, above all - that he can't see the joke.

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