Nice thing about last episode is now my expectations are at complete rock bottom so the tiniest bit of interest or exposition will be a pleasent surprise. Covered most of the things that seemed stupid, the most frustrating thing was no dialogue from the night king, or just something, and his abrupt death would have been a bit more emotional if he'd killed off one of the main characters. I'm starting to think that Grrm has basically given them nothing so the series can never overshadow the books.
Game of Gnomes Series 8
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm up to ep 2 now. One thing that's struck me is how desensitized to incest both viewers and characters have apparently become. Remember back in the first series we were all like "Ewww!" about Jaime and Cersei? And now, when Jon tells Dani about his true parentage, her first thought was "That means he has a better claim to the throne than me!" and not "So I've been fucking my nephew. Oh."
Then again, I guess Targaryens probably have a different standard for this sort of thing than most folks do.
Then again, I guess Targaryens probably have a different standard for this sort of thing than most folks do.
IdleRich
IdleRich
As I think about it, it has changed from a brilliant thing with the odd bit where you think "that wouldn't have happened" but you're willing to suspend your disbelief cos the rest of it is so good... to a thing where you find yourself making an excuse for a stupid thing every few minutes. It's rapidly using up the capital it earned in the first series and it's not generating much more.
droid
Well-known member
At its most core, GOT was good not because of plotting, good writing or characterisation, but because those who played the game badly suffered the consequences. That's actually the basis of its subversion. No deus ex machina, no plot armour, if you made bad decisions you suffered. That basic logic allowed the show to do silly fantasy things and get away with them because it was grounded in a recognisable world of action and reaction. Once that went, everything else went with it.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I'd agree with that to some extent. When I first watched it what impressed me was that there was this vicious world of horrible people who would kill you if they could. If you made a mistake that let them in they WOULD take advantage, they were utterly ruthless (in part because they understood that if they weren't then they would be on the receiving end from someone else) and it didn't matter if you were innocent, a child or whatever, if you failed to grasp the rules (that essentially anything goes) and the consequences (which are everything) you will very soon be a distant memory. That's exactly it when Ned Stark warns Cersei that he knows what's up and honourably gives her the chance to leave before he tells the king... doing that signs his death warrant because she simply cannot allow him to do that and she will stop at nothing to prevent it. Even before that the farm boy is killed for playing too rough with the heir. It very strongly impresses on you that the stakes are everything. In that respect it reminds me of the Accursed Kings - has anyone read that?
There was an article on this a couple of weeks ago.
The Key to ‘Game of Thrones’ Season 8 Isn’t Dragons or Swords or White Walkers or Even Incest. It’s Consequence. - https://www.theringer.com/tv/2019/4...nes-season-8-consequences-jon-sam-arya-cersei
IdleRich
IdleRich
Perhaps all of the above is the reason that Cersei (and related shenanigans in Kings Landing) are the bits that are the best and that still feel most like Game of Thrones. Basically she is the only character who still subscribes to this cut throat view of the world and who doesn't give a fuck if it's humans or zombies on top as long as she is alright. As a result she is a) still capable of double-crossing the good guys who are behaving more and more like classic heroes and b) increasingly more interesting than them.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well he was partly right!
"Good job you turned up when you did, sis, because frankly I had nothing."
IdleRich
IdleRich
A generally good episode otherwise I thought, it's just that they have these moments that are so.... inexplicable, that it pulls you out of the whole thing. Like I was saying about you have to make excuses for it and say "Yeah but apart from that bit it was good" which is a shame.
IdleRich
IdleRich
The thing is, I like the way the story developed in this episode. I think it's cool that Cersei is on top, that thingy died and so on and so forth. Just the very fact that it's hard to predict what will happen. I even liked a number of individual scenes. The problem is, a number of other scenes - important ones which were a big part of the way that story developed - were handled very badly. There were a number of stupid flaws which are too obvious to bother going into and it's frustrating cos they could have been addressed, how could those in charge not notice these things which basically spoiled bits and impacted on the whole thing.
I don't mind the general direction it's heading in, but the way it's getting there is appalling. It's like a storyboard, just thinly-sketched scene after thinly-sketched scene until we get to a rushed set-piece; take the incident with the dragon, it's fine that a second one dies, but the fact that it dies after they basically teleport to Dragon Stone and get ambushed by a fleet they somehow can't see from behind a rock is just terrible storytelling.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah, and they could have done it differently with a bit of thought. It seemed that Cersei could have flown behind them and burned them easily, but they surely could have contrived some way to make it look not possible, rather than have her not do it seemingly through choice. And next scene that stupid Flashart/Captain Sparrow character is back at King's Landing, how does he just appear everywhere? He's a shit baddie cos he doesn't have anything special or scary or whatever about him, it's just they write him winning all the time and it seems so implausible. I hate him cos he's rubbish but I don't hate him like Ramsay who was truly twisted and evil.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
You mean Dani, right? Yeah, even if she's blind as a bat you'd have thought her dragons would have had good enough eyesight to spot a whole war fleet before they were in ballista range. Or they could have sent a couple of scout ships ahead. Or something.
I'm also a bit nonplussed that anyone - let alone Tyrion, of all people - thinks it's worth trying to reason with Cersei at this point. Who was it said she'd "gladly burn the Seven Kingdoms to the ground if she could rule over the ashes"?
Fully agreed about the rubbish Urine Greyjoy. I suppose with Joffrey, Tywin, the Boltons, Walder Frey and Littlefinger all dead he's now the number two baddy after Cersei. But he's just rubbish. Uninteresting and seemingly invincible.
I'm also a bit nonplussed that anyone - let alone Tyrion, of all people - thinks it's worth trying to reason with Cersei at this point. Who was it said she'd "gladly burn the Seven Kingdoms to the ground if she could rule over the ashes"?
Fully agreed about the rubbish Urine Greyjoy. I suppose with Joffrey, Tywin, the Boltons, Walder Frey and Littlefinger all dead he's now the number two baddy after Cersei. But he's just rubbish. Uninteresting and seemingly invincible.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Not seen the latest episode, but watched up to the end of the battle last night. Thought it was pretty bad up until the last 30 minutes, and the last 30 minutes had some pretty inexplicable shit in it.
The main crimes were 1) the battle tactics 2) the survival of major characters, all of whom seemed to be able to kill hundreds of 'tireless' zombie warriors with no sweat 3) the destruction of the night king without any explanation whatsoever of what he was about (although I do like that they killed off the 'main' threat before the end) 4) the visual incoherence.
On point 4) - this is what still marks (the best of) cinema out from TV shows, as a general rule. Game of Thrones has been spectacular, with beautiful costumes and all the rest of it, but it's been the writing and acting (up until recently) that have really made it worth watching. I think a sort of TV aesthetic has bled into movies now, particularly franchise fare like the MCU, and it isn't ever really talked about by critics, because it's more or less irrelevant to viewers. Perhaps the nature of TV (multiple writers and directors) makes an auterist vision difficult to sustain. The only boxset TV show I can think of with consistently impressive direction was series 1 of 'True Detective', all directed by Cary Joji Fukunaga. Fincher did some cool stuff in 'Mindhunter', even though I didn't rate the show as a whole.
I can see there's an argument for visual incoherence to communicate the chaos and terror of battle but OTOH it takes a lot of tension out of the viewer's experience when you can't even tell who's killing who (although this being season 8 of GOT, you could pretty much bet on nobody important dying).
The main crimes were 1) the battle tactics 2) the survival of major characters, all of whom seemed to be able to kill hundreds of 'tireless' zombie warriors with no sweat 3) the destruction of the night king without any explanation whatsoever of what he was about (although I do like that they killed off the 'main' threat before the end) 4) the visual incoherence.
On point 4) - this is what still marks (the best of) cinema out from TV shows, as a general rule. Game of Thrones has been spectacular, with beautiful costumes and all the rest of it, but it's been the writing and acting (up until recently) that have really made it worth watching. I think a sort of TV aesthetic has bled into movies now, particularly franchise fare like the MCU, and it isn't ever really talked about by critics, because it's more or less irrelevant to viewers. Perhaps the nature of TV (multiple writers and directors) makes an auterist vision difficult to sustain. The only boxset TV show I can think of with consistently impressive direction was series 1 of 'True Detective', all directed by Cary Joji Fukunaga. Fincher did some cool stuff in 'Mindhunter', even though I didn't rate the show as a whole.
I can see there's an argument for visual incoherence to communicate the chaos and terror of battle but OTOH it takes a lot of tension out of the viewer's experience when you can't even tell who's killing who (although this being season 8 of GOT, you could pretty much bet on nobody important dying).