Beyond Soul.

if you didn't clown my aphorisms a bit you'd realise that I speak nothing but the truth. I don't even hide the rational kernel inside the mystical shell like all spiritualists do. I give you 5 grams of speed in one. the dialectic is electrified through me. Sorry, comrades on my news feed are sincerely talking about communism once a fucking again as if they have a love affair with it. I'm feeling nauseated and frustrated in equal measure. I'm an anti-state communist but I have no romantic dreams that it is ever inevitable (not because of that bogeyman called human nature) in fact if human nature was as the capitalists say, then communism would be far more achievable and the left would have won its war of social development of the human a long time ago. more because capitalism has totalised to such an extent that it is essentialy a closed system with no masters or leaders. the corporations can shift their rulers in ever more bizarre and dazzling combinations and awrays. just in time leen production. very few parts of the world (almost close to nil) aren't in the nexus now. we are all cyborg. we couldn't be without. not possible. long since passed. we'd have to turn the clock back 50 years at least. This is why left accelerationism is stupid. it's like saying here's a gun, kill yourselves. not that I'm interested in preserving the left but I mean if you want to commit political suicide I have no sympathy for you.

Naturally, having been and continuing to suffer from suicidal thoughts physical and moral suicide I can very much sympathise and empathise with. But whilst physical suicide does end the sufferers suffering political suicide only compounds it.

And of course how soulful can certain affecting vocalists be when they are manufactured by criminal gangs? This is why I laugh at malcolm mclaren. nothing but a toy.

I mean I can tell stories but probably over a few spliffs and drinks not online.

This is why I hate the world music. I don't hate it because of its surface level orientalism, I hate it because of the surface idea that manipulation doesn't go on in the periphery. It does, it's just that as a non-native of the region with all of its unspoken social codes you'll never know.

in Turkey some truly astoundingly talented women got their careers truncated or violently aborted because of serious industry manipulation. others, not having the quiescent or mafia personalities for fame were put through the most agonising abusive torment to be made into fame icons. it's not that culture is topdown, it's when you've got nothing you will latch onto the relatable. something the left analyses miss. culture is *lived* not owned, but of course it is the bourgeoisie's culture. even grime. they had to take it away from us. it couldn't be any other way. not possible.

im not pessimistic. noone's pessimistic on this thread! what's there to be pessimistic about? this shits been going on for over 6000 years. as a species we've numbed ourselves to it. there's nothing there to get sad about! how can you make revolution when you're sad?

thirdform said:

if you didn't clown my aphorisms a bit you'd realise that I speak nothing but the truth.

Click to expand...

Just playing. Was funny because it was out of character.

It feels pessimistic to me to say categorically that there's no way back to soul & real feelings being expressed in music..

pattycakes_ said:

It feels pessimistic to me to say categorically that there's no way back to soul & real feelings being expressed in music..

Click to expand...

It’s not inherently pessimistic. I for one think it’s a great thing. It’s a real marker of just how innovative the last 30 years of music have been. Paradigm shifting in its truest, most potent sense. So pioneering as to render the whole emotional palette of hundreds-maybe even thousands- of years or art redundant within the space of 3 for 4 decades.

To answer the initial proposition of the thread:

1) harkening back to older styles of music has an inherent emotional detatchedness that comes with it. It’s pastiche, there’s a degree of distance.

2) as such it follows that genuine- or at least potent- emotional expression has to be done through modern forms and styles of music as they don’t carry the baggy age of being pastiche.

3) increasingly since James brown, but really ramping up with rap and rave music- modern music has been centred around rhythnic ideas.

4) rhythm often is processed far more in terms of movement or information than it is emotional. Even when it does conjur feelings, they’re not ones we’d consider ‘soulful’. Funkiness is about ego. Jittiriness is about anxiety.

5) as such we are unable to use either modern nor old styles to create new soulful music.

Or its a real marker of how 'innovation' has become a cross for us all to bear. The foundational teleological myth of modernity. Consumerist psychosis.

It's easy to forget that there were cultures in history in which art forms didn't fundamentlly change for hundreds, if not thousands of year.

To our modern sensibilities this seems like aridity, nullity.

A culture set up to reward society's members with endless superficial rewards.

New trainers, new t-shirt, new box set, new drum pattern, new ad-libs.

Corpses, you’re in your 30’s! Stop acting like you fought in the Korean War!

I’m not sure there’s much to suggest there’s much in the way of moral degradation accompanying this musical shift. Presumably opinion polling would show young people to be less racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.

pattycakes_ said:

It feels pessimistic to me to say categorically that there's no way back to soul & real feelings being expressed in music..

Click to expand...

There never was an immaculate unsullied soul in music though. Bary Gordy was as much as a money maker of anyone else. Matthew isn't entirely wrong here he just takes the side of the Etonians.

pattycakes_ said:

It feels pessimistic to me to say categorically that there's no way back to soul & real feelings being expressed in music..

Click to expand...

I'm not saying there is no way back though. half of my intervensions are to say that there is a way back. but that way requires a paradigm shift in how we socially relate to each other. given that we are in a totalised dictatorship that can even give you the illusion of being a dissident, I'm saying that to recover the soul of music will first and foremost require billions of people to participate in changing society. given that in terms of music we are speaking of small avant-gardes, cults and dissensuses, then going beyond soul is imperative. Soul as an expression of joy through pain is just as manufactured as anything else. What I would say is I want an organic soul, not the soul of capital. Motown was the soul of capital.

Half of patty's favourite soulful rare groove club djs were probably on at least speaking terms with organised crime syndicates. when we say there's no soul in music, we're talking about the music that connects people nationally and globally. of course if you are on a gap year being inducted into a native American witch kovan then that's a different story but you know...

Corpsey said:

Or its a real marker of how 'innovation' has become a cross for us all to bear. The foundational teleological myth of modernity. Consumerist psychosis.

It's easy to forget that there were cultures in history in which art forms didn't fundamentlly change for hundreds, if not thousands of year.

To our modern sensibilities this seems like aridity, nullity.

A culture set up to reward society's members with endless superficial rewards.

Click to expand...

You're descended from minor aristocrats though aren't you. forgive me but I'd rather be rewarded with endless superficial rewards than be bum raped by a feudal lord day in day out.

Third, you live in Finchley, have a grand piano in the living room, went to school with the libertines and listen to autechre.

You’re a communist for Christ’s sake. No working class person has ever been a communist.

We’re all middle class here third. It’s not a bad thing. No more name calling. Engage with the substance of what he’s saying.

yeah but it's like that bloke who came here the other day after a long hiatus. it's a bit infuriating. like ok we get it, gurus, sheikhs, lords, sacred principles designed to evoke celestial harmonies. so what. those days are behind us. I'm not even a sincere communist. if you have a time machine take us back, i don't care. It's infuriating to see the conversation stuck at this level. none of us are going to study in a religious school, not even patty. for all his spiritual affecting position he wouldn't be able to commit to organised religion. none of us would. it's hard work. Whereas I have direct experience of being made to adhere to it as a compulsion.

It's all very well going to morocco or wherever and talking aout spiritual compassion but do you really think without being immersed in that culture you're gonna know all of its unspoken social codes? thats what soul was supposed to transmit back in the day. if it's just a good times music then we already have that. go to happy hardcore rave.

Like this convo itself is a case study in why soulfulness is impossible. That's what's pissing me off. the beyond soul contingent, me you and luka are actually offering concrete arguments. but the soul mafia is saying oh you're rationalists, you ain't gonna get it. Except most of the music that is coded as 'soulful' or 'spiritual' is profoundly rationalised to fuck, maybe even more than rave music. you can't notate rave music, you can't notate remarc RIP (I believe nomad tried to do this back in the day) and it just fell flat.