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  1. #1
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    Default Beyond Soul.

    I still think of Pattycakes invocation of 'soul' as the ultimate determination of value in music. A lot of us (eg Bartys pop music, thirds anti humanism) would disagree strongly. What is soul. When did we lose it? How did it happen and what are the consequences? What opens up on the other side- beyond the soul?

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    When people talk about music being 'soulful', they're not (I don't think) talking about the 'soul' in the religious or even philosophical sense.

    I think what they mean is either that ts authentically emotional, or they're referring in particular to 'soul' music - which is harder to pin down. I think most often people use when it's clearly directly descended from soul music.

    Also I feel like music that doesn't use either 'real' instruments or synths that sound like them isn't seen as soulful. So, yes - the opposite of mechanistic, manufactured. That's why you wouldn't describe either Carly Rae Jepsen or Autechre as soulful.

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    If I started a thread and someone wrote what I’m about to write I’d be pissed off. Threads are much better when people don’t resoundingly disagree with the underlying premise, but explore it instead.

    But to be a hypocrite, I don’t understand what you mean by pop music being anachronistic to soul? I thought it was soul in its purest form. What am I misunderstanding about your usage of the term?
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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    Donít be disheartened, threads always have a bumpy beginning where everyone gets the wrong end of the stick and then they get good.
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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    You'll have to do it alone for now sorry I just started eork. Just sort of guess what I mean if you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    You'll have to do it alone for now sorry I just started eork. Just sort of guess what I mean if you can.
    Makes it fun.
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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    Please not another thread about migos

    What IS of note is that innovation/futurism and soulfulness are somehow antithetical.

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    Pop is polished, airbrushed, engineered to the last millimetre, emotions smoothed out. It's the polished metal covering the grinding inhuman gears. The inhuman gears are industrial techno.

    Pop is also fundamentally adolescent or even pre-pubescent. It is about uncomplicated emotions - happy or frowny. Soul is about a complex mixture of happiness and frowniness.

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    Running with soul as Ďauthenticityí for a bit.

    In the 60ís people believed in music having the ability to effect change; civil rights, Vietnam, etc.

    Since then audienceí and artistís scopes have increasingly reduced.

    Weíve reached the point where some would argue that artists arenít saying anything. Empty, tokenistic gestures to a handful of well worn topics; guns, sex, dancing, love and drugs.
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post

    Weíve reached the point where some would argue that artists arenít saying anything. Empty, tokenistic gestures to a handful of well worn topics; guns, sex, dancing, love and drugs.
    Iíd counter that by arguing the thematic narrowness forces artists to be more creative elsewhere. Migos sticking to very rigid subject matter has forced them to develop the biggest innovation in us rapping since rakim.

    Bob dylanís Lyric centrism has meant he can produce music completely devoid of any emotional resonance or sonic merit.

    The best music of all time (jungle and post-72 mikes Davis) is by and large lyricless.
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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    whoa whoa whoa Migos biggest innovation in rap since Rakim im sorry nah

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    Iíd counter that by arguing the thematic narrowness forces artists to be more creative elsewhere. Migos sticking to very rigid subject matter has forced them to develop the biggest innovation in us rapping since rakim.

    Bob dylanís Lyric centrism has meant he can produce music completely devoid of any emotional resonance or sonic merit.

    The best music of all time (jungle and post-72 mikes Davis) is by and large lyricless.
    https://www.boohoo.com/mens/collecti...ooman-by-quavo

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    Running with soul as Ďauthenticityí for a bit.

    In the 60ís people believed in music having the ability to effect change; civil rights, Vietnam, etc.

    Since then audienceí and artistís scopes have increasingly reduced.

    Weíve reached the point where some would argue that artists arenít saying anything. Empty, tokenistic gestures to a handful of well worn topics; guns, sex, dancing, love and drugs.
    Simon done a good riff on Migos lyrics. Do you remember that? Saying it's just empty form without any investment. The same thing has happened to love songs. Love doesn't exist any more. It's impossible to fall in love, a ridiculous concept. But artists are still tied to singing about it. The form lingers on but the concept has rotted away.

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  21. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    If I started a thread and someone wrote what Iím about to write Iíd be pissed off. Threads are much better when people donít resoundingly disagree with the underlying premise, but explore it instead.

    But to be a hypocrite, I donít understand what you mean by pop music being anachronistic to soul? I thought it was soul in its purest form. What am I misunderstanding about your usage of the term?
    I wasn't using it in some idiosyncratic personal sense. I was using it in the standard, loose sense. Feel free to argue the point but I think when average herd people, bovine grazers, sheep, followers, normies, basic people use it pop is antithetical to soulfulness. Granted pop is a capacious stocking; Will Young, Rita Ora, Stepz, Little Minx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    I wasn't using it in some idiosyncratic personal sense. I was using it in the standard, loose sense. Feel free to argue the point but I think when average herd people, bovine grazers, sheep, followers, normies, basic people use it pop is antithetical to soulfulness. Granted pop is a capacious stocking; Will Young, Rita Ora, Stepz, Little Minx.
    i'm not 40. i've never, ever heard a person use the word "soul" in conversation.

    i
    it appeals to this forum tho given the current wave of pedophiles, genocide deniers and alt-right youtube stars.

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