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Thread: "yearning for the algorithmic"

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvuent View Post
    lol in this case I can't tell if the problem is the lack of dynamics or just the, you know, song.
    You can hear how flattened everything is though, right? How there's no depth to the recording, each element sitting next to the other rather than above, below, behind or in front of.

  2. #17
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    yeah for sure, just not sure if I was able to hear how it might have been impacted by that in terms of rhythmic feel. I think you're right though, having a mix of faint and loud sounds in a beat can really make a difference. maybe having dynamic range helps convey rhythmic motion more vividly.
    Last edited by mvuent; 13-04-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  3. #18
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    I wasn't talking specifically in regard to rhythm, more the idea of imperfections and variation being desirable - that mastering job is the dynamic equivalent of an unchanging rhythm - but, yeah, it can have an impact on rhythm too. If you hop into a DAW and take a drum pattern then play about with the velocity sliders, you can do a fair bit without moving any of the hits themselves.

  4. #19
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    Where does stuff like gabber and very straight techno fit into this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I wasn't talking specifically in regard to rhythm, more the idea of imperfections and variation being desirable - that mastering job is the dynamic equivalent of an unchanging rhythm - but, yeah, it can have an impact on rhythm too. If you hop into a DAW and take a drum pattern then play about with the velocity sliders, you can do a fair bit without moving any of the hits themselves.
    as far as "imperfections" and variations sounding better than "perfection" (or at least are compelling in their own right), analog vs digital is another classic one; this idea's really stuck with me, probably deserves its own thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Where does stuff like gabber and very straight techno fit into this?
    raises the question of whether or not there's a scale of whatever this is called. 80s pop, gabber, etc. at one end and ??? at the other. or maybe it's hard to quantify, since the ways 'yearning' expresses itself are so different across genres.
    Last edited by mvuent; 13-04-2019 at 01:52 AM.

  6. #21
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    you heard William Fields, mvuent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    We need third to come in and outline how, first and foremost, Autechre is dance music.
    it's just the electro hip hop beat structure untied from the turntable and mc. like people who are pro and anti-autechre read way, way too much into it. whats more interesting is the amount of texturological control they have over the granular sounds and beats. the variation is more in the texture rather than like venetian snares where he tries to make prog rock jungle or something. Actually in a funny way its exactly how techno would sound for all those saying italo is irrelevant it all come from electro boogie and hip hop. well that's exactly Autechre's route, they hate Italo... so actually the soulquarians had the right idea they just didn't take it to its logical end conclusion..

    they don't exactly start composing stumbling turkish rhythms. they are basically blocks of industrialised and mechanised hip hop beats. their music has far more connection to black music than say Aphex. really its the contract they got in with warp which means they have to put out all that music under the AE name. They probably put in more work setting up max/msp patches than they need to when something like a free jazz ensemble type arrangement could make their task quicker. that's demystifying the geniuses mystique around them. of course there is Gescom but you get my point.

    And I own nearly all of their discography but i can say all that because i spurn the cul of personality.
    Last edited by thirdform; 13-04-2019 at 03:39 AM.

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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    you heard William Fields, mvuent?
    I hadn't, thanks.

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    well some people wouldn't hear the inherent patterns i hear in this



    or


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    I'd say that for those making music in a DAW this is one of the hardest things to get right.

    Polyrhythms are a good way to achieve this effect because you can have 2 simple one bar loops at say 7 beats and 5 beats that when played together will repeat after 35 beats giving a much more complex sequence. The rhythms phase in and out bending but not breaking and eventually resolving.

    Steevio's a master of this and has a kind of algorhythmic process using a few 8 step analogue sequencers. Good video of him explaining his process here.



    The algorave stuff id find more interesting if it sounded good! It's all a bit random in a random way, I prefer music that has elements of chaos, in the sense of complex systems arising from a set of initial conditions and outside influences, which Id imagine autchres stuff is often based on as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorge View Post
    I'd say that for those making music in a DAW this is one of the hardest things to get right.

    Polyrhythms are a good way to achieve this effect because you can have 2 simple one bar loops at say 7 beats and 5 beats that when played together will repeat after 35 beats giving a much more complex sequence. The rhythms phase in and out bending but not breaking and eventually resolving.
    completely agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jorge View Post
    The algorave stuff id find more interesting if it sounded good! It's all a bit random in a random way, I prefer music that has elements of chaos, in the sense of complex systems arising from a set of initial conditions and outside influences, which Id imagine autchres stuff is often based on as well.
    I'm not sure quite what to think of it. haven't heard much that actually sounds like it could live up to the 'rave' part yet but the potential is definitely there if the premise of this thread is right. I can see how the lack of relevant outside influences probably is part a big part of it (i.e. they're all nerds).


    thanks for the steevio rec btw
    Last edited by mvuent; 13-04-2019 at 04:22 PM.

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  16. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorge View Post
    the rhythms phase in and out bending but not breaking and eventually resolving.
    the idea of 'resolution' in this kind of music is interesting to consider as well. in the case of polyrhythms you can get 'resolution' but for the most part I'd guess it's incompatible with those kinds of dramaturgical concerns. resolution implies that there's one correct / satisfying way for things to align, whereas the 'yearning' dynamic seems to rely on the opposite assumption.

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  18. #28
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    I like the no resolution. those 1 bar loop 5-7 beat polyrhythms (as cool as they are and exactly what techno needs) it seems awfully expensive to invest in a modular to do that. with the algorave stuff it's democratised, it's just its got a steap learning curve. Autechre don't use modular synthesisers.

    I was a bit hesitant to post this because footworks gone academic but hey I quite enjoyed this drifting in and out of a nap the other afternoon around 6-7 PM. Not sure how it will sound in headphones, but loud on the speakers it was... interesting. seems like with the algorave stuff it's possible to do the weird pitching with the claps that DJ Roc, DJ Nate et al were doing back in the day. I'm quite excited about that because most drum tracks in dance music don't use tuned percussion and being into middle eastern music and that I realise that half of he crazy 9/8 polyrhythms don't work because you've got a machine pulse at the same pitch, timbre and resonance.

    https://www.mixcloud.com/resonanceex...february-2019/

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  20. #29
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    if you listen here, also in that bundle, you can here that it stays at a pretty standard folk dance rhythm. so if we're talking in that sense it does resolve. and yet the rhythm remains to be constantly dynamic through the non-isochronic (I think that's the correct musicological term? bart man correct me) nature of it, you listen for the variations in the pitch of the rhythm tracks. that's why polyphonic middle eastern music never really works. there is not the same approach to counter point over there. not a value judgment that's just how things are.


  21. #30
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    this is a much better example of what im talking about probably.



    feminin rhythms, oceanic.

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