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Thread: Culture As Advertising.

  1. #31
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    Gun lean is an obvious accommodation to and internalisation of market logic. I think it's important to be able to draw that distinction.

  2. #32
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    Freud continually uses archeological metaphors, with the unconscious visualised as beneath, deep, buried.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    You could argue, from a cynical, but not stupid or contemptible position, that what we are asking for is fantasies we can believe in. Love can be thought of in this way. It ends when it's foundations in fantasy are uncovered. Disillusioned. Just mutually compatible projections.
    i'm currently experiencing with drill, what you would have done around the same age as me with grime.

    we both saw cultures that we'd grown up around and were intimately familiar express themselves musically. we were really invested in musics that had made our lived experience manifest sonically.

    then that changes. skepta and jme aren't real people. you'd never met anyone behave like jammer started to by 2006.

    likewise i've never heard an actual human being talk like unknown t. never new anyone who got obsessed about coke and danced around golf courses talking about it.
    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

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  5. #34
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    i suppose that's it. when does the music become alien to lived experience? that's the biting point.

    that explains why it's not so painful to watch american rappers sell out. i'm embarrassed by quavo's boo loo stuff, but it doesn't hurt.

    whereas even something as minor as unkown t not quite being proper drill is disturbing and shocking.

    it's because migos were never a lived experience whereas drill was.
    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

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  7. #35
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    Atlanta is Hollywood. Before anyone jumps down my throat incidentally this is completely detached from aesthetic valuations. You can love 'Gun Lean' and still mark the distinction.

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  9. #36
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    this thread pertains to aaliyah's iconic status.

    the inverse process happened to her. rather than being a real person that became an advert, she was an advert that was tragically revealed to be human.

    a complete dullard in interviews, she didn't write her own stuff or nothing. the cover of aaliyah looks like a billboard poster. then suddenly she dies. even worse we discover she was the victim of pedophile.

    the hollowness and vacuousness of aaliyah becomes haunting and eerie. all the makeup and clothes and generic lyrics suddenly are tarred by this poor girl being habitually raped by a powerful older man. her art in retrospect becomes a reflection on how the artificial and superficial does little to address the human condition. it all seems in bad taste given what happened to her.
    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

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  11. #37
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    Or like the horror stories that emerge out of k-pop. Demonic abuse and exploitation.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i suppose that's it. when does the music become alien to lived experience? that's the biting point.

    that explains why it's not so painful to watch american rappers sell out. i'm embarrassed by quavo's boo loo stuff, but it doesn't hurt.

    whereas even something as minor as unkown t not quite being proper drill is disturbing and shocking.

    it's because migos were never a lived experience whereas drill was.
    I suppose in simplified outline the story which repeats every generation or so goes

    Start out exemplifying values and attributes and abilities prized within the community in which you are embedded, get raised up by that same community, hometown hero, then in the attempt to leverage that local fame, disavow those values and shoot for something more nebulous and universal. The problem being the universal is a fiction. It doesn't really exist.

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  15. #39
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    the gully gaza war was a battle between two visions of jamaica. alliance/gully were religiously observant, socially and sexually conservative whereas gaza flirted with atheism and satanism, pushed sexual boundaries in jamaica, bleached skin, made women more prominent in the empire.

    mavado is soulful. his voice haunting and gritty, whereas kartel has never made a single song that isn't tongue-in-cheek or disingenuous. kartel relished in product placement. he shifted jamaican music from real world feelings of religious devotion, rivalry and aggression to something far more plastic and ironic.






    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

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  17. #40
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    The universal is the face of the market. In some very strange way these people become the mouths and bodies of capital. I've talked about this a little bit before. How we are trolled by these young, beautiful rich faces, but the actual voice is impersonal. It doesn't belong to a human.

  18. #41
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    Third when you see this thread please don't abuse anyone. No personal attacks. You'll have lots of good, relevant, intelligent things to say so please do it in a nice way that includes others rather than excludes. Sorry to be a primary school teacher but I don't want to see the thing turn into a car crash. It hurts my heart.

  19. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    How we are trolled by these young, beautiful rich faces, but the actual voice is impersonal. It doesn't belong to a human.
    alkaline neither looks nor sounds human. 'tatooed' eyeballs, bleached skin. voice like a toy or cartoon character.

    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

  20. #43
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    What values are higher than materialism, if material is all?

  21. #44
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    That's a very interesting dyad given both were immensely popular on a local level. Neither really became a full blown international celebrity. Using that characterisation you'd put vybez on the side of capital, in that, as Vimothy recently pointed out, capitalism dissolves traditional cultures, but only in as much as he was reflecting changes already at work in the community, not things that would be completely alien and hostile.

    Here's Vims quote
    its ironic to consider that a nominally communist state should be protecting these reactionary social institutions - a policy closer in tone to the patronising tolerance one might expect to see from a western democracy. like the superficial tolerance of liberal democracies, the protection of the "communist party of china" conceals (and legitimises) a more fundamental reality, that of the dissolution of traditional culture in the solvent of global capitalism (in which the communist party of china is a major player).

  22. #45
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    reynolds swinging his big, bulbous, blissblog knob around all over the place like conan the barbarian:

    Cher actually looks how Auto-Tune sounds. The combination of three levels of enhancement—surgery, makeup, and that old trick of bright lights that flatten the skin surface into a blank dazzle—means that her face and her voice seem to be made out of the same immaterial substance. If the “Believe” promo was produced today, a fourth level of falsification would be routinely applied: digital post production procedures like motion-retouching or colorizing that operate at the level of pixels rather than pores, fundamentally altering the integrity of the image.
    i remember the tangible exhilaration of reading this bit.
    not what i was hoping for if i'm honest

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