thirdform

pass the sick bucket
the Culture/Culture II era, they have nothing to prove, they've won, they are basking - melting into liquid glowing pools of jouissance

there is an ecstatic, oozy quality - ethereal and (at odds with the lyrics) eerily unmanly at times, lacking in thrust and drive

Isn't this a decades old critical intellectual bias though? music critics could never get with black sabbath. they could never get with grindcore, 90s memfis rap, horrorcore, dancehall, the more harsher end of dnb that crosses into gabba territory, speedcore etc. there seems to be a pivot to the oceanic to avoid getting too invested in male fantasies, as that german sociologist (I forget the name) coined it to refer to the hyper-masculinity of extreme right groups. It seems to be the curse of, i guess, coming from an outsider background.

But something white bohemians struggle to understand is we can't just escape hyper-masculinity at will. It's fucking dismal but it's fact.

That's why I'm kind of indifferent to tranquility unless it's done in a totally disembodied way like some berlin school and tangerine dream. I'm never ever tranquil. my mind is buzzing at 135 MPH all the time, even when someone's sucking me knob. So like I disagree with Corpsey's ADHD criticism. More of that is fantastic, but it's less now. more, more more flicking through TV channels! That's real.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Again I don't think this is an authenticity vs plastic thing here, no label era Migos are not authentic (whatever that is supposed to mean.)

I just think ambient is a shit opiate for the people. it don't hit hard enough for me. It signals the decline of innovation in the capitalist manufacturing process, not its apotheosis.

This could actually be anti-miserabilist if the left got its house of cards in order and wasn't a caricature subculture. death to subcultures and death to pop too!
 

luka

Well-known member
It's like that migos were the most innovative since Rakim. I'm not against this viewpoint whatever but half of the people who were into young thug and Migos that I met a few years ago didn't even know who Rakim was! hip hop has taken the roll of indie pop for white hipsters. like, noone listens to indie anymore. This was pitchfork's conscious pivot in the late 00s and early 11s.

Like Bliss had an interesting thesis around (oh, circa 2005?) about how black pop and white pop stopped talking to each other. But white pop today is basically the mainstream wing of the wire isn't it? Savages and Jenny Hval. It doesn't actually exist. who actually listens to Jo Riley on radio 1?

Migos are no more innovative than future, keef or thug to name a few but that's not the point. The point is to goad barty into being brilliant.
 

luka

Well-known member
Because he is brilliant he can take an inherently comical position and make it seem plausible, if only for an instant. That is the set up and it's a really good one.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I thought we'd already done that? For the record I liked that post, but i can't remember if i hit the like button, i thought it was very well thought out, even if he was caricaturing my position with the anti-capitalist comment...

I thought this was the aftermath now? in which case I'll shut up if I'm wrong.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Yes. The aesthetic crystallised a couple of years ago. I haven't listened to their solo albums for example. It's done now. I'm ready for something new.

i had a weird dream last night where i thought i was on acid and the phrase quod erat demonstrandum transformed into riggling erotic alien creatures impregnating everything around me just to prove that we'd reached a new stage of human evolution where debate was absolutely unnecessary.

I see now that we have, in our own way, reached a dialectical unity of position.
 

luka

Well-known member
Another interesting thing is that Barty is sincere. Not remotely sincere in thinking it is the most innovative thing since Rakim, but sincere in his regard. In one way or another, drugs, sex or just a really good night out, he's taken a very strong imprint on Migos. He really had a mystical vision. The sense in which this has any objective basis is quite slippery. I don't think he's hearing anything that isn't there, I just think he's hearing it much better than we do. Greater bandwidth. More fidelity. On the other hand "accents on the offbeat" is obviously not a yardstick of innovation.

However if you can, through contagion, catch a little of someone eleses pleasure, then they've done you a huge favour I think.
 

luka

Well-known member
Neither me nor Barty listen to much rap so we have no idea of what the timelines are but probably crowl can help us lay out a kind of 'history of deconstruction' as there's no doubt he knows much more than we do.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
David Drake on Migos


I really like his writing, I'd forgotten.

"When I listen to the Migos, I’m not tracking their story from scattered pieces, I’m not following their bars in a linear narrative fashion. I’m digging the hooks & surface characteristics, the lyrics in the moment, the energetic interplay; the style is the content."
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
I wouldn't say "Versace" is their High Point but it is a significant record with massive MASSIVE impact on rap in Atlanta and outside. I get Blissblogger wants to histrionically proclaim how much better Migos got once they were applicable to his tastes but it'd be like me saying "Well that time A Guy Called Gerald made 'Voodoo Ray'... That was pretty shite wasn't it?" just to put over 28 Gun Badboy. And that's me being v. generous for the Culture I & II era.

I mean for goodness sake in the interim period of that, Migos were keeping their career alight on the internet by overextending memes about them being used as mascots for a line of chips.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/D4PC6ILPvHg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BtavNowBjHY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

luka

Well-known member
So Crowley, you're saying the Migos stuff Barty is lauding is just a bad joke? He's got it completely backwards. That's really interesting. Good to hear from an insider as well. An American with his finger on the pulse.

And corpse, you're saying you think Drakes take is much more astute and convincing than
Bartys? He's not going to like that one bit but it's brave of you to say so, specially as you know Barty has a real grudge against Drake, saying he knows fuck all about music, just some weird fat nerd.
 
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luka

Well-known member
I really like his writing, I'd forgotten.

"When I listen to the Migos, I’m not tracking their story from scattered pieces, I’m not following their bars in a linear narrative fashion. I’m digging the hooks & surface characteristics, the lyrics in the moment, the energetic interplay; the style is the content."

https://www.complex.com/music/2014/03/quavo-is-the-most-influential-rapper-of-2014

Here's a thing of his on quavo from 2014 you might like corpse

"The Migos, really, are the 2014 Das EFX, only the sewer's been replaced by the bando. (No, seriously—Das EFX even spit in triplets, just like the Migos.) Quavo isn't even considered the best rapper in the group—that honor typically goes to Offset, who has more dexterous raps. But part of the reason Quavo has become so influential is because his rapping isn't overly concerned with the intricacies of lyricism. Instead, he's imprinted a very specific rhythmic pattern on hip-hop's psyche. By finding a flow that stood apart and emphasizing it, he shifted the way rappers rap.

No single rap artist has so completely popularized a single, distinct flow. Even Lil Reese's "Us"—copped by everyone from Drake to Future to, um, Austin Mahone—didn't have quite this reach. When it comes to the way rap sounds right now, Quavo's impact is impossible to deny. That distinctive triplet pattern, first popularized on their smash hit "Versace," is the sound of 2014."

"The "Migos Flow" is made up of 1/8th note triplets. A "triplet" means that in the time typically given to two notes, an artist has fit three of equal length. This happens in music all the time; often in Southern rap, the hi-hats will move in three while the rapping is in standard 4/4 time. In this case, it's the reverse, which gives the feeling of moving forwards and standing still simultaneously, like spinners on a car. When most rappers are determined to make their flows seem effortless and slick, the Migos have intentionally made theirs choppier, faster, distinct."

"The Migos flow, then, has a specific effect. Whereas most rappers in Atlanta rap with a sense of swing, leaning back on the beat—Gucci would do this, as would T.I., although "swing" has been pretty consistently "in" throughout hip-hop history—the "Migos Flow" is stiff, landing squarely on beat, without a hint of swing. It gives the impression that their verses are denser, more intricate—like a kind of parodic version of "rapper's rappers." It's almost the sonic equivalent of when Gucci would name songs after multisyllabic adjectives—"Wonderful," "Gorgeous," "Ridiculous," etc. Satirizing the notion of "proper" English, or in this case, "serious" square rapper flows."
 
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CrowleyHead

Well-known member
So Crowley, you're saying the Migos stuff Barty is lauding is just a bad joke?

No, I'm saying that them hitting this 2nd stride that's led into the stuff blissblogger champions so readily is in actuality based in the twin realities of image restoration AND sonic restoration. By the time their first proper studio album had dropped, Migos were already considered passe and that led to a steady attempt to reinvigorate themselves. However, a lot of this was secondary to making themselves feel fun and desirable again. Songs like "Cocoon" or "Commando" demonstrated they'd learned how to make much more solid music that went beyond their stylistic flourishes. That wasn't as vital in restoring them as positioning themselves as the namesake of the 'dab' dance that was actually pushed initially by their affiliates Jose Guapo and Skippa da Flippa, or the aforementioned joke song. Those memes have more currency than a good majority of the songs he wants to champion, which isn't saying "his song selection is stupid" it's happily ignorant of the scene at hand because he has no regard for the actual rap audience dictation.

This is the issue at hand: Blissblogger ignores those of us who were around for the First Act of this group saying "Well it's lost a lot of its charm" by outright discrediting first us (the 'flat earth bidniz' remark from last year isn't forgotten) then the period he's not concerned about because it doesn't suit his narrative. Barty, to his credit, is cheekily dismissive but steadfastly implies that the period in which Migos had to reinvent themselves is valid and also if anything undervalued by persons such as I, third or Corpse.

The fact is records like "Versace" or "Jumpin Like Jordan" or the like are still having imprint now. Listen to the triplet-impacted flows of even 67 in London, they're clearly cognizant of their own sensitivity to being imprinted by Migos and it's PRE-Culture that these tricks have already been absorbed.
 
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