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Thread: the barbarian ideal

  1. #61

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    thats just a random aside, idk what to make of it

    in what sense does the "barbarian ideal" characterise communism? the barabarian ideal meaning a force from outside which attacks civilisation. communism arises from particular currents within civilisation (unlike, say, Islam) and aims to complete in some sense civilisation

  2. #62

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    btw, I'm not totally blind to the appeal of the "barbarian ideal". I'm just disputing the extent to which this is characteristic of communism

  3. #63
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    I can far more easily imagine barbarism as embodiment of the fascist ideal. That makes a lot more sense to me.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    thats just a random aside, idk what to make of it

    in what sense does the "barbarian ideal" characterise communism? the barabarian ideal meaning a force from outside which attacks civilisation. communism arises from particular currents within civilisation (unlike, say, Islam) and aims to complete in some sense civilisation
    how is that? you've been reading too much US state propaganda on radical islamists, ok, maybe you haven't, but how on earth is islam an outside? the point is that civilisation subsumes everything. and has been doing so for centuries, even, in some senses, before capitalism. I mean you had ibn rushd writing about the civilised classes in the 13th century in Andalusian mercantile tributary society.
    Last edited by thirdform; 09-07-2019 at 10:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

  5. #65

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    lol, you have no idea

  6. #66

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    I respect islamists

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I can far more easily imagine barbarism as embodiment of the fascist ideal. That makes a lot more sense to me.

    fascism is vulgar aristocracy though, ultimately. the middle class can make it. we all see ourselves in the man of trials and tribulations.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

    I don't. they are very boring and mundane and are creaking with existential angst, especially after their boss man Erdogan screwed up in Syria, something that will haunt them for decades (if not centuries) to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

  9. #69

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    point there is that islam predates capitalist civilisation, not to kick off an argument about whether religion is a precondition of civilisation

  10. #70

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    communism is operating from within a particular strand (european, capitalistic) of civilisation

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    point there is that islam predates capitalist civilisation, not to kick off an argument about whether religion is a precondition of civilisation
    stop taking speed and systematise your points. christianity predates both islam and capitalist civilisation. yet capitalism is inarguably stamped with the dying skin of protestantism.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

  12. #72
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    apparently before the neolithic revolution (and the specialisation that resulted) group structures weren't particularly hierarchical. so if you were to define communism simply as egalitarian societies in which the means and rewards of production are equitably distributed then you could argue that the 'barbarian ideal' is compatible with communism.

    however if communism is defined as a more complex body of thought and a historical phenomenon then obviously it is inherently tied to civilisation. how could it not be?

    does that make everyone happy?
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists
    weirdo
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

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  16. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    weirdo
    I did think of sending him a nude but then I have to get viagra. juicey brown circumcised islamic nude.
    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I respect islamists

  17. #75

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    I'm not ashamed

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