corpse's deconstructed rap thread

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
ol dirty bastard an early deconstructed rapper.

late-90's rza being taking proper rap as far as it go. odb offering a glimpse of what the next step was.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
also imm not sure why lucius' is being a tad passive aggressive. the thing is electro never died in the south, crowl will tell you as much.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
the thread is about rapping itself, the vocal bit.

not about the genre rap music, which would include the instrumentals.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
the thread is about rapping itself, the vocal bit.

not about the genre rap music, which would include the instrumentals.

Yes I know. I'm not a fucking dunderhead am I. I addressed this. the electro drum track requires more concatenated choppy flow than the traditional boom bap beat. you can try rap wordy boom bap over electro and it will just come out wrong.

Sorry, tensions pretty high at home with dad today so luke being like that cheesed me off a bit. and usually I do have a tendancy to barge in but i was just curious as to what deconstructed means in this context if we situate this kind of rap in its context and not the UK pop charts.

I'm not angry though, just being blunter than usual. no apologies needed.
 
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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
rappety rap is the style that dominated east and west coast rap throughout the 80's and 90's. it crystallised in the mid-90's for me, others would argue a little earlier with the likes of rakim.

sonically the main appeal of this style was rhythmic intrigue and sophisticated rhyming (multi-syllabic, rhyming words that don't properly rhyme, etc.)

compare that to lollipop, rhythmically it's not sophisticated. so what is the appeal? melody, exploring the timbral novelty of autotune, phonetic experimentation, etc.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
nah nah nah i think I'm not quite communicating well here either as well. because my knowledge of 90s southern rap is woefully lacking outside of triple 6, ugk etc. so I'm finding it hard to chronologise how things went down differently than in NY.

Hoping Crowley comes in and sets me straight.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
another way of positing this is that the first 20 years of rap's history was trying to make make rapping sound as naturalistic as everyday conversation. trying to remove all the remnants of limerick in the vocals.

that was by and large achieved by the mid-90's. nas, raekwon et al sound remarkably conversational when they rap.

the the last 20 years has been the abandoning of naturalistic dialogue as the ideal.

singing, treated vocals, rhythmically cantonised, funny noises, non-conversational but also non-melodic use of pitch, etc. all stuff that has nothing to do with every day conversation.
 

luka

Well-known member
I just feel a bit sorry for barty sometimes that's all. No one ever wants to grant him his premises and work from that foundation onwards. Anyway I'm still working can't really chip in where's Crowley
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
I just feel a bit sorry for barty sometimes that's all. No one ever wants to grant him his premises and work from that foundation onwards. Anyway I'm still working can't really chip in where's Crowley

that's all very true, but don't worry about this thread. i'm not very invested. i just was setting it up to watch web and crowl do some late-night magic.
 

forclosure

Well-known member
ok 2 things 1) i feel like rappity rap is a phrase more applicable to that underground rap shit round the turn of the millenium

2) i feel like the first rap "deconstructer" was Kool Keith i mean you can say hes doing a more psuedo-scientific T La Rock but on Critical Beatdown aswell as its like hes breaking down all the stuff that came up to that point ASWELL as laying down new groundwork for rapping, you dont get say Sadat X if it aint for Keith who i know seems like a weird pick but all even now amongst the peers of his generation he doesnt sound like anybody content might be the same but the road through his verses is far more scattershot and sometimes it sounds like he isnt even rhyming


also where do you lot stand on the The Good Life/Freestyle Fellowship cause Myka 9 and them man (Pharoahe Monch) for their times were going above and beyond what qualified
 

forclosure

Well-known member
shit E-40 you could argue was doing similair things Southern rap the problem is that at this point among the "accepted" crowd theres maybe 6 rappers people feel are really worthy of talking about but there were alot of guys who had hits now that people look at as afterthoughts.

8ball & MJG, Tela,Cool Breeze,

gotta consider about the Miller brothers (P,Silkk and C Murder) as massive as they were cause Silkk has been regularly considered one of the worst rappers ever but around that same time Camron was kinda doing that rapid arhytmic style
 

luka

Well-known member
Yeah, I agree with all those people plus Saafir and DMX and many more. It's always there as latent possibility isn't it.
 

luka

Well-known member
proper rapping never became redundant, it just lost its social base. the two are different imo.

it's like the malcolm x thing, you are like that's a bygone world. and in some senses i do feel the gravitational pull of that temptation as well. it's certainly a compelling argument but im always hesitant about embracing it as it tends to fetishise the market more than anything else. but it is compelling when capital has domesticated all protest to its own logic. so that's worth touching on but probably not too much.

This fetishising the market thing is a catchphrase of thirds and it needs unpacking. It's a Barty critique,and it's not without substance, but it is, I think, only a half truth. We need to work out what it means. If these two insist on trying to undermine one another's Realitys we might as well do it methodically and surgically and try and learn something.
 

luka

Well-known member
ok 2 things 1) i feel like rappity rap is a phrase more applicable to that underground rap shit round the turn of the millenium

2) i feel like the first rap "deconstructer" was Kool Keith i mean you can say hes doing a more psuedo-scientific T La Rock but on Critical Beatdown aswell as its like hes breaking down all the stuff that came up to that point ASWELL as laying down new groundwork for rapping, you dont get say Sadat X if it aint for Keith who i know seems like a weird pick but all even now amongst the peers of his generation he doesnt sound like anybody content might be the same but the road through his verses is far more scattershot and sometimes it sounds like he isnt even rhyming


also where do you lot stand on the The Good Life/Freestyle Fellowship cause Myka 9 and them man (Pharoahe Monch) for their times were going above and beyond what qualified

Kool Keith's patterns are fascinating, they never sound wrong to me, but they definitely sound unique.
 
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