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Thread: GENESIS: The Dissensus Bible Group.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    I need this translated (the bit in bold):

    (God to Cain)

    Why art thou wroth? And why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
    Seconded.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Luka will hate this but the new Neal Stephenson makes an OK stab a plausible simulation theory via biblical creationism and uploaded minds. Made me think about genesis slightly differently.
    Not necessarily. Tell us more.

  3. #33
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    hehe. Hod.
    platonic god =! jewish god
    platonic
    I didn't follow this. What do you mean?

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It says bless the lads and it means bless the lads.
    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i don't know, probably some marxist cultural theory or something
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    gabber terrorism is fun but not all the time, sometimes you gotta be sophisticated or sulky for the ladies.
    https://manifestacionesoterica.bandcamp.com/

  5. #35
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    The story of Noah cursing Ham's son (Canaan) for happening upon him in a drunken naked stupor: is Ham's sin not covering Noah himself, or having seen his father naked (while the other two sons walk backwards so they don't see him)? How strange. Kafka becomes clearer already.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  6. #36
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    Apparently people have been confused by this for the last 2000 years

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

    The majority of commentators, both ancient and modern, have felt that Ham's seeing his father naked was not a sufficiently serious crime to explain the punishment that follows.[14] Nevertheless, Genesis 9:23, in which Shem and Japheth cover Noah with a cloak while averting their eyes, suggests that the words are to be taken literally,[15] and it has recently been pointed out that, in first millennium Babylonia, looking at another person's genitals was indeed regarded as a serious matter.[14]

    Other ancient commentators suggested that Ham was guilty of more than what the Bible says. The Targum Onqelos has Ham gossiping about his father's drunken disgrace "in the street" (a reading which has a basis in the original Hebrew), so that being held up to public mockery was what had angered Noah; as the Cave of Treasures (fourth century) puts it, "Ham laughed at his father's shame and did not cover it, but laughed about it and mocked."[16]

    Ancient commentaries have also debated whether "seeing" someone's nakedness meant to have sex with that person (e.g., Leviticus 20:17).[15] The same idea was raised by third-century rabbis, in the Babylonian Talmud (c. 500 AD), who argue that Ham either castrated his father, or sodomised him.[17] The same explanations are found in three Greek translations of the Bible, which replace the word "see" in verse 22 with another word denoting homosexual relations.[16] The castration theory has its modern counterpart in suggested parallels found in the castration of Uranus by Cronus[18] in Greek mythology and a Hittite myth of the supreme god Anu whose genitals were "bitten off by his rebel son and cup-bearer Kumarbi, who afterwards rejoiced and laughed ... until Anu cursed him".[19]
    PLEASE: No jokes about honey roast/wafer thin, we're better than that
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  8. #37
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    I was thinking, reading about the Tower of Babel, that God keeps getting scared or horrified by man's ambition, like Dr Frankenstein - there's no sense of him being omniscient at all at this stage, he's God in man's image, muddling along, throwing shit fits. Anyway, what's interesting about this for me is that it's a model of fatherhood - you create a child (probably a son in this example) in your own image, you want them to be as powerful and creative as you, but at the same time you're threatened, you want to clip the little shit's wings.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    Not necessarily. Tell us more.
    It's a melange as all his stuff is, but the core of it is rich dudes having their connectomes mapped after death and then turned on in a quantum computer. The first mind finds itself in a sea of chaos with no conscious memory of its past of conception of time and eventually recreates reality, builds a world through force of will and a pantheon of gods emerges as others join him. There's some neat stuff about processing power and its effect on the world and the minds that inhabit it. There's a tower of babel, garden of eden, adam and eve, reincarnation... Its all quite contrived but if your a simulation person it seems like a feasible model.

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  12. #39
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    JAH IS the vicissitudes of Nature. the buckling plates underground and the torrents from on high. the leveling blast of the volcano. judaism most likely emerges from the bronze age collapse.
    Is disease, war, murder, heartbreak, loss. Is the God that is. You can conceive of a Kind, Kuddly, Karing God, but then you have to explain away his powerlessness.

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  14. #40

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    I remember being quite stunned when reading about the Great Flood in the library of Apollodorus and how it so closely mirrored the later Bible story. There is also a book about the origins of the Flood story written by Norman Cohn which I would really like to read.

    It seems to me there's a switch in gears once you get to Abram - suddenly the lineage story becomes clearer, the narrative tightens.

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  16. #41

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    "Eleh toledot haShamayim w'haAretz b'hi'varam b'yom 'asot Y'hwah Elohim eretz w'shamayim."
    These births [of] the Skies and the Earth in their creation/through Avraham, in [the] day they were formed [by] haShem the Strongest, land and skies.
    (b'reishis/genesis 2:4)

    it was all for Avraham.
    this is also the first place we see that name, YHWH, haShem
    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It says bless the lads and it means bless the lads.
    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i don't know, probably some marxist cultural theory or something
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    gabber terrorism is fun but not all the time, sometimes you gotta be sophisticated or sulky for the ladies.
    https://manifestacionesoterica.bandcamp.com/

  17. #42

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    note also that Adam was taken and placed in Gan Eden from somewhere which is not specified. i touched on this some i think in the 'spitballs'/anthropology of magic thread touching on the emergence of horticulture
    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It says bless the lads and it means bless the lads.
    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i don't know, probably some marxist cultural theory or something
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    gabber terrorism is fun but not all the time, sometimes you gotta be sophisticated or sulky for the ladies.
    https://manifestacionesoterica.bandcamp.com/

  18. #43
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    From very early on, it's clear that Adam/Eve and their descendants aren't the only human beings around, that once they're out of Eden they're in an already-populated world. The notion that all human beings are supposed to be descended from this original couple has very little support in the bible as written. It's what you might think must be true, on the basis of their being the first-created human beings, but the story doesn't actually adhere to that logic at all.

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  20. #44
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    That's right. So for instance you have descendants of A&E 'taking wives' who haven't been accounted for in the genealogies

  21. #45
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    Is that true?

    I thought everybody was descended either directly from Adam or from Caine/Seth.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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