Innovation & Purification

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Yeah right so what we need to do is take this stuff which is great and make it so it's not opposed to whatever third wants to do so we can start moving in a shared direction again... We are being bogged down here where we shouldn't be

Third loves all this. He said that quote of mine about janes brown was his favourite thing I ever wrote on dissensus. The thread about rhythms was inspired by (and features) the dem 2 track from his list.
 

luka

Well-known member
So who are we performing for? And who do we have to convince. There are the next questions.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
the idea of going into a self-imposed artistic "groundhog day" scenario has always kind of appealed to me. ignoring new trends and exploring the possibilities of styles and resources that were available at a given time to an absurd extent. for me there are a lot time-specific aesthetics that seem, frustratingly, not to have reached to their full potential—so doubling down would make sense.

the problem is, in “intensifying” a style, some of what made it appealing in the first place tends to get lost. as pointed out in energy flash, breakcore is “mosh-able not dancable.”

I think that's true for the later American/IDM wave but the original breakcore was almost a deconstructed club before deconstructed club. the endeavour was deliberately to kill speed and velocity through speeding things up and then injecting them with frantic stop starts, gunshot beats, half time bits, dancehall clave rhythms. in essence it was disrupting the by then petrified value set of the flow. because even garage mixing by then was all about the slick crossfade.

So if we see darkside hardcore as getting rid of the ecstasy lightweights then we can see this kind of disjunctive approach as getting rid of the lightweights who don't think its all screwed up, socially and/or culturally. this doesn't mean a trotskyist seminar in the rave, heaven forbid. of course the danger then became that metal kids thought it was all about velocity when that velocity itself was supposed to indicate a kind of technoist realism, not idealised as some anti-religious dumb satanist edgelord pose. but then one has to ask how much that sound was inherently tied to 90s anarchism and squat rave scene. because a deconstructed club advocate could say they are doing the same, but their disjunctive music is tailored to a different sort of demographic. this is why I think club culture itself now needs to be demolished.

 

mvuent

Void Dweller
I think that's true for the later American/IDM wave but the original breakcore was almost a deconstructed club before deconstructed club. the endeavour was deliberately to kill speed and velocity through speeding things up and then injecting them with frantic stop starts, gunshot beats, half time bits, dancehall clave rhythms. in essence it was disrupting the by then petrified value set of the flow. because even garage mixing by then was all about the slick crossfade.

So if we see darkside hardcore as getting rid of the ecstasy lightweights then we can see this kind of disjunctive approach as getting rid of the lightweights who don't think its all screwed up, socially and/or culturally. this doesn't mean a trotskyist seminar in the rave, heaven forbid. of course the danger then became that metal kids thought it was all about velocity when that velocity itself was supposed to indicate a kind of technoist realism, not idealised as some anti-religious dumb satanist edgelord pose. but then one has to ask how much that sound was inherently tied to 90s anarchism and squat rave scene. because a deconstructed club advocate could say they are doing the same, but their disjunctive music is tailored to a different sort of demographic. this is why I think club culture itself now needs to be demolished.


interesting stuff. I was thinking of "purifying" as "making the same but better" but thinking of it (at least partially) as "getting rid of the lightweights / certain values" makes more sense. obviously a bit less sisyphean.

if purification means you reinterpret the source to some extent, is it really that different from innovation?
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
interesting stuff. I was thinking of "purifying" as "making the same but better" but thinking of it (at least partially) as "getting rid of the lightweights / certain values" makes more sense. obviously a bit less sisyphean.

if purification means you reinterpret the source to some extent, is it really that different from innovation?


well that depends on what you reinterpret. if the mover started making acid jazz that would be a reactionary eclecticism wouldn't it.

and yet he made quite a lot of breakbeat hardcore with his puristic german techno/hip hop ideals.

the possessed - black blood can rival any of the darkside from the UK.
 
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