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Thread: chav--explain to a confused expatriate please

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_yggdrasil
    they are. as were big greasy rockers in the 60s.
    load of bollocks really.
    my sister when she lived in ipswich had very specific names for all these (sub) urban tribes, grebos were these kind of children, then there were townies, raggas, goths and rockers, skaters, ravers, very confusing and quite odd.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mms
    my sister when she lived in ipswich had very specific names for all these (sub) urban tribes, grebos were these kind of children, then there were townies, raggas, goths and rockers, skaters, ravers, very confusing and quite odd.
    heh. i wonder if any of those 'tribespeople' saw themselves as such....

  3. #33
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    so let me get this straight, 'happy slapping' is a term for people being beaten up and filmed on mobiles? didn't know this had its own word, but it happened to two close friends (one female) a year ago on the street where i live. deptford isn't very 'super-cannes' but i can totally see where ness is coming from here

    i don't know what that has to do with 'chavs' mind you. my suspicion with that term is that its used to denote what was otherwise denoted by 'townie' or 'ned' by bourgeois types, but is an ambiguous enough term for it not to sound like class disdain- unlike the above two phrases where it is blindingly obvious....

    but though i find the term (and that awful, awful website) repellent, i do recall the joy i had when i was 14 or so and i found out i had a generic insult i could throw at people who were throwing generic insults at me me and my friends were called 'hippies' at school (southern england mid 90s, incidentally), for not having cropped hairdos...these things are TOTALLY based on class though. 'we' were mostly middle class (i wasn't, but joined the group in school where i didn't have to pretend to be stupid) 'they' were overwhelmingly working class.

    anyway it's best not to get me started on this one...

  4. #34
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    I'm not buying grebos, I associate Grebos with being a bit more fun loving and with more of a sense of humour. These kids are fucking miserable. I'm picking up on Bizkits.

    Chavs were just casuals in my day (84-89).

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_yggdrasil
    heh. i wonder if any of those 'tribespeople' saw themselves as such....

    some of them did and some others defined them i guess.
    skaters definitley define themselves, they are held together by their love of the old wooden toy.
    goths as welll i imagine, i doubt townies do or raggas, grebos maybe.

    incidentally i keep on seeing this girl around whos about 16 or so with two mates, they all dress in slightly ripped and fucked school uniforms and this one girl has 'death loves us all ' written in chalk on her back, quite an odd look.
    Last edited by mms; 24-05-2005 at 10:08 AM.

  6. #36
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    i find the laughing at it absolutely vile, and whilst i wouldnt want to claim some kind of solidarity - i come from the same background! these kids used to live on the same street as me! what differentiates me walking around in a group and them walking around in a group bar dress?

    when i was 15-16 used to get angry that these guys gave people my age a bad name, now at 19 i totally understand it's a minority and just kids doing what kids do, no matter where they come from (in my failing state school spectrum that is, i've not a clue how different the kids who went to posh schools are)

    oh and i dunno how kids hanging around on the streets now is any different to how it was in the past.

    it's just the old having an age old dig at the young again? the notion of getting an asbo sounds ace though.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_quixote
    it's just the old having an age old dig at the young again? the notion of getting an asbo sounds ace though.
    There's loads of pensioners getting ASBOs now, mostly for being cantankerous and shouting at people. I've always wanted to turn out like that when I'm old anyway - pretend to be deaf, scare kiddies by being the 'weird old man' up the street, that sort of thing - so I'm looking forward to getting an ASBO at 70 and wearing it like a badge of pride.

  8. #38
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    Kids are not allowed out on the streets or out in public generally if they have no money. It's highly suspicious that they would want to be outside, socialising in groups and getting up to mischief, when they could be indoors playing computer or watching SKY. That's how it's going down nowadays.

    All I know is, if I was a pissed-off fourteen year old, I'd be rocking the hoody and cap 24-7...especially now our PM is declaring vote-friendly civil war on kids in sportswear by demonising them. When I was a yoot, it was all nicking VW signs, there was a fair media kick-off about that too...

    Tony Blair is going to amend his proposed idea of banning hoodies and caps....hoodies with "Nirvana", "Slipknot", "Marilyn Manson" etc on 'em, they're allowed as they signify a generally middle-class mild mannered youth, with good behaviour. Brands such as Nickelson, Hackett and Berghaus on the other hand - the wearing of these will be banned for anyone under the age of 16, unless they have a signed document stating the profession of their father, to prove their class status. If youths are caught wearing banned clothing three times, they will be forced into workfare.

  9. #39
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    Why doesn't Tony Blair just ban the whole JD Sport empire? Chavs will have NOTHING to wear.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bun-u
    I think it often depends on who is doing the name calling
    I don't think the idea of a "hostile and parasitic" youth culture is anything new, so I too think this is the central feature of the debate. I would be more interested in trying to define the different types of speakers on this thread and elsewhere who tend to offer either sympathy, solidarity, or scorn. (You could add to that a fourth "S"—suspicion, if you like.) What are these voices all about and how can they be organised?

    As a Canadian who spent some time in the sprawl of London a few years back, I found the "hegemonic" (to quote someone upthread) aspect of chav to be its defining character. Sure, we have fashion trends and idle, destructive packs of teenagers (like anywhere), but I can assure you there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Canada as mystifyingly (almost admirably) uniform as the chav.

    With this thread on my mind recently, I walked by a group of Canadian high school kids who were spending their lunch hour outside 7-11. Sure enough, I found myself offended by them—the angle at which baseball caps are worn, the quantity and gaudiness of the jewellry, the "classic"-ness of the trainers have all increased dramatically in the last few years. Or have they?

    I was going to write some stuff about how "the discourse producer" (if we can apply a "chav"-like label to him or her too) has now entered that phase of life where teenagers are a constant threat and irritation, but then I decided to scrap it: that hardened "authentic" chav exterior I encountered in Britain—seen lounging outside the offie or from the window of a train—is about where it stops. The chavs I made friends with (ie. those who would probably identify themselves as such, if asked) are bright, resourceful, unfailingly loyal, and hypermodern. There is a relentless push towards newness among these guys at all times (no irony or recontextualisation here) that makes me feel like a bit of a fucking dinosaur. (And genuinely embarrassed for trying to figure out whether they're the noughties equivalent of mod.)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassnation
    these people live their lives twice as brightly as everyone else and deserve respect rather than the vile snobbery they get instead.
    FFS! I can't believe I just read that, or that no-one here has picked up on it. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but leaving aside the question of the rights and wrongs of mocking or loathing chavs, I can't see a meaning other than that you're saying that these people's lives are somehow brighter, more vibrant, more creative than, say, mine, or even the average person's because they are obsessed with their clothes (or was there some other reason). That is just plain ludicrous.

    I'm not trying to be personal here, or to pick a fight with Bassnation, but I couldn't let that statement go unremarked.

    And those that suggest that the antisocial behaviour of chavs (or indeed any antisocial behaviour) is somehow "society's fault", i.e. that they don't have a choice as to their behaviour, are as deluded as the mother of three teenage mothers who blamed the schools and the lack of sex education. IMHO.

  12. #42
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    what i've found weird about the chav term is how incredibly strongly it has encoded my reaction to the people who live around me (smack in the middle of the estates with no other posh upwardly-mobile twats for miles)

    suddenly i'll look at a nice young gel, and i'll be thinking: "shes a chav" such is the, sometimes unpleasant, power of language

  13. #43
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    Default jackie

    derz nuffin ouside the text innit

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOEBOT
    what i've found weird about the chav term is how incredibly strongly it has encoded my reaction to the people who live around me (smack in the middle of the estates with no other posh upwardly-mobile twats for miles)

    suddenly i'll look at a nice young gel, and i'll be thinking: "shes a chav" such is the, sometimes unpleasant, power of language
    haha. (i'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny, but i laughed)

    unrelated, but, at uni there was a girl i'd see everyday who dressed up as a school girl. she'd come into the coffee shop thing everyday (where i'd be wasting my life away between lectures) and buy a coffee and leave. i'd also see her coming in some days from the toward the tube station. i had a theory that she was pretending to her parents that she was still at school, but was actually going to uni.

    they had a "chav" night at my uni earlier this year. i saw pictures afterwards. people dressed up in sportswear and some strange girls put balloons beneath their tops, symbolising that all chavs are pregnant. quite interesting stuff.

  15. #45
    simon silverdollar Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpc

    unrelated, but, at uni there was a girl i'd see everyday who dressed up as a school girl. she'd come into the coffee shop thing everyday (where i'd be wasting my life away between lectures) and buy a coffee and leave. i'd also see her coming in some days from the toward the tube station. i had a theory that she was pretending to her parents that she was still at school, but was actually going to uni.
    she works in the main library. she's nice.

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