Funk is Cancelled.
- Thread starter luka
- Start date
bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Not wedded to the term "spasm", maybe "flail". Could be conceptualised as groove = pelvis/torso, spasm = limbs/extremities. I wouldn't say it ever "resolves" but the tension is the essence of funk.
bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
"The essence of funk"....kill me now.
Leo
Well-known member
bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Polka or psytrance.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
right, that's excellent. pelvis-torso (core) vs limbs (extremities) cuts to the heart of the matter.
unresolved tension is definitely the sine qua non of funk. the sense of endless forward propulsion that never resolves, in the funky drummer, Tony Allen, Jaki Liebezeit sense
seem iirc there are tangible/technical reasons (ghost notes, swing, syncopation?) for that unresolved tension but they're beyond my musicological ken
I was using "resolved" above in reference to spasm-groove dialectical tension, rather than tension in the music itself
back on our topic, maybe we could say that: extremities can spasm or flail but can't groove, core can spasm or groove but can't flail?
everything funky has a groove, but it can be an anti-groove (James Chance)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
another dichotomy I've seen made is funk (JB, Meters, etc) vs fonky (P-Funk)
like all such things it shouldn't be taken as a hard and fast division but it's a useful conceptual framework
fonky seems to have much less of that unresolved tension, as Funkadelic. again I'm sure there are technical reasons why that's so. much closer to rock.
it's interesting to trace those traditions on thru the 80s
JB looms massively, as he always will, over everything in any way funky, but you'd have to say P-Funk etc was a much bigger direct influence on boogie, synth funk and etc
i.e. Atomic Dog, Zapp, and so on
whereas the continuation of funk proper was in the largely white avant-funk crew, until it resurfaced in rap
like all such things it shouldn't be taken as a hard and fast division but it's a useful conceptual framework
fonky seems to have much less of that unresolved tension, as Funkadelic. again I'm sure there are technical reasons why that's so. much closer to rock.
it's interesting to trace those traditions on thru the 80s
JB looms massively, as he always will, over everything in any way funky, but you'd have to say P-Funk etc was a much bigger direct influence on boogie, synth funk and etc
i.e. Atomic Dog, Zapp, and so on
whereas the continuation of funk proper was in the largely white avant-funk crew, until it resurfaced in rap
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
boogie being almost all groove, very little spasm, and virtually no flail
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
there's also the other kind of unresolved tension in funk: cold sweat
obviously related to, if not the same as, the tension of being black in America, esp at that time (albeit mixed as always with the commercial necessity of making records that sell)
tho also, at least implicitly, the general existential cold sweat tension of being alive
either way, the funk response is: tighten up. get on the good foot. get on the 1. get it together. get on up.
the fonky response is: loosen up. free your ass and your mind will follow.
obviously related to, if not the same as, the tension of being black in America, esp at that time (albeit mixed as always with the commercial necessity of making records that sell)
tho also, at least implicitly, the general existential cold sweat tension of being alive
either way, the funk response is: tighten up. get on the good foot. get on the 1. get it together. get on up.
the fonky response is: loosen up. free your ass and your mind will follow.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Boogie gets all of those things in its bass lines and synth sounds imo. Like those chord stabs with the wiggly pitch
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
these are subjective things and anyone can have any opinion, but like, no
or you're stretching the definitions of spasm and flail so much as to make them meaningless
by all means put up some examples. I know whereof I speak wrt boogie.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
tho I can see what you mean. it's a different kind of spasm tho. we're talking rhythmic spasm.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
tho again it's interesting that the synth spasm such as it is all P-funk - Worrell, Troutman, etc - as opposed to funk
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
boogie synth spasm is a more of a shudder thing
it doesn't invoke flailing limbs
it doesn't invoke flailing limbs
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
to follow up w/blissblogger - there's no exact answer, but what degree do you think each of these played in post-punk?
I know you weren't saying ACR was literally a frustrated Level 42 would-be, but it's still hard to reconcile Knife Slits Water etc with Lessons In Love
intentionality in art is a big deal to me. I'm forever using it to explain or defend conceptual art (4'33", Malevich's White on White, etc).
take 23 Skidoo - one has to imagine that whatever they did was - basically - what they intended to do
there are always in accidents in creation of art ofc and it doesn't invalidate or necessarily lesson the art but it's an interesting question
especially since we're talking about proficiency - creative accidents often being a workaround to limitations, be they technical, playing ability, whatever
Iommi tuning down to make it easier for his damaged fingers to bend the strings
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
sidenote on 23 Skidoo
this is their first single and it's fucking crazy to me that the same people put out The Gospel Comes to New Guinea a few months later
like it's a corker of a tune and tbh I love it (that guitar interplay @2:22) almost as much as Coup etc but like wut is this jangle pop w/a bit of skronk sax at the end to remind you they're weird
this is their first single and it's fucking crazy to me that the same people put out The Gospel Comes to New Guinea a few months later
like it's a corker of a tune and tbh I love it (that guitar interplay @2:22) almost as much as Coup etc but like wut is this jangle pop w/a bit of skronk sax at the end to remind you they're weird
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
one of my favorite early 80s funk tunes, and a nice synthesis of funk and boogie (fonk), to illustrate a bit of the difference
horn section, guitar, very funk
squelching bass is 100% boogie, and the woozy synth
falsetto vocals in the chorus indebted to Prince
in our terms, primarily groove. the percussion is all groove. bit of spasm/flail in the guitar, but just a bit. some of that shudder spasm Patty mentioned in the bass/synth.
horn section, guitar, very funk
squelching bass is 100% boogie, and the woozy synth
falsetto vocals in the chorus indebted to Prince
in our terms, primarily groove. the percussion is all groove. bit of spasm/flail in the guitar, but just a bit. some of that shudder spasm Patty mentioned in the bass/synth.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
btw don't think I don't see that Grand Funk Railroad tag
I'm fascinated by this. I'd say that P-funk is one of the "unheard" US musics in the UK that I was talking about above, in that it doesn't feel part of the UK's understanding and experience of black music. I'm not saying Parliament weren't listened to but they don't seem to have the same popularity as other more radio and single friendly US black acts. Would I right in saying they(Parliament) were more an album than a singles bands?
I'm also interested in their influence on rap. Going out on a limb but I think this might have something to do with West Coast vs East Coast in US music. The West Coast lineage goes on into West Coast rap (Dr Dre through to YG) in a way that just doesn't happen afaik with East Coast and NY hip hop.