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Thread: Money

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    I know this is one of my paranoid conspiracy bugbears but it does seem to me that the meaning of money changes when it's given out by the government. You can see this by looking at the way benefits work. They become survival tokens which can be witheld for 'bad' behaviour, for example drug use. It then becomes a control mechanism. I'm not necessarily against the idea of UBI and it seems reasonably likely something like it will become necessary if the promised automation revolution arrives. I'm just suggesting it probably won't be as peachy as it sounds. You'll have to 'earn it' in some other way.

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  3. #32
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    I'm not going to wang on much more about bitcoin, but this article explains a model for assessing the value of anything - money, silver, gold, Bitcoin, shitcoins.

    hhttps://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/m...y-91fa0fc03e25
    This is an interesting analysis but (by his own admission) it doesn't take account of other factors, eg if another cryptocurrency becomes more popular then it won't matter about the restocking levels of Bitcoin, or if all the exchanges get hacked or it gets made illegal for legitimate businesses to accept it or something.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment View Post
    The term "making money" is interesting. As far as I know its an American invention. In all of history, you'd only been able to only earn it, attain it, transport it from somewhere else into your possession. "Making money" is the American Dream, a non zero-sum arcadia economy, where everybody can flourish on account of themselves only and at the misfortune of none.
    And yet the USA now has a president who is the embodiment of the opposite principle. Trump's worldview is strictly zero-sum: for him, a deal is only good if it's bad for someone else. For there to be winners there must also be losers.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  5. #34

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    I found money really fascinating bc its so obscure but also so central, this strange occult object always in your blind spot

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  7. #35
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    The paper dollar is a crucial text in the nationalist canon of US literature, and one that is probably read more than any other; its words and images make it a complex symbol of nationality that tries to convey what defines this nation. The conflation of economic and ideological value with regard to the dollar is most evident in Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code, which states that

    Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

    One may interpret this only in economic terms as the unlawful destruction of legal tender, but one may also relate this to section 700 on the desecration of the flag of the United States and consider both together in terms of national symbolism. The ideological inscription of money and the potential subversion of said ideology through that very same money combine in this instant, and the moral blankness of money makes it a contested space where ideologies may be affirmed and challenged depending on how the money is used.

    https://orbit.openlibhums.org/article/id/420/

  8. #36
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    wasn't also a demonstration of strength, superiority that a conquering nation would do away with the currency of the country they invaded and institute their own? the ultimate domination and castration of a rival country, to neuter its monetary system and take away the symbol of its national independence.

    kinda like the euro.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    wasn't also a demonstration of strength, superiority that a conquering nation would do away with the currency of the country they invaded and institute their own? the ultimate domination and castration of a rival country, to neuter its monetary system and take away the symbol of its national independence.
    kinda like the euro.
    Ha, well they never got the UK did they? Losers.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    the ultimate domination and castration of a rival country, to neuter its monetary system and take away the symbol of its national independence.
    Language is probably the ultimate.

  11. #39
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    true, although people can continue to speak the previous language in private (or in public, if they want to be rebellious). they have no choice when it comes to the monetary system.

  12. #40
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    just curious, do any far-right nationalists groups in the EU make a fuss about wanting their old currency back? any push for the return of francs and deutsche marks?

  13. #41
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    Salvini threatened to abandon the Euro, but I dunno whether it's an actual aim of his.

  14. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I found money really fascinating bc its so obscure but also so central, this strange occult object always in your blind spot
    Totally. I mean I understand the very basic stuff like companies selling shares to raise capital and banks lending at interest, but the very advanced methods of doing business in financial services strike me as the next thing to black magic. You're just shuffling numbers from one account to another and somehow you end up with more "money" than you started with - how does that work? The abstraction of money from anything you could call wealth or value - never mind labour - is pretty much complete.

    Then there's this identification of debt with Druj, which a few people ran with after Cyclonopedia, although I'm struggling to remember who - 'you' would know, I'm sure.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  15. #43
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    I liked the scene in the third season of Fargo where David Thewlis was lecturing Ewan McGregor on wealth and the financial crisis.

    - - -

    Varga: You see it, don't you? Millions of people bought houses they couldn't afford, and now they're living on the streets. Eighty-five percent of the world's wealth is controlled by one percent of the population. What do you think is going to happen when those people wake up and realize you've got all their money?

    Stussy: Hey, I just charge for parkin'!

    Varga: You think they're going to ask questions when they come with their pitchforks and their torches? You live in a mansion. You drive a $90,000 car.

    Stussy: It's a lease, through the company!

    Varga: Look at me. Look at me. This a $200 suit. I'm wearing a second-hand tie. I fly coach. Not because I can't afford first - because I'm smart. So look at you, look at me, and tell me who's the richer?

    Stussy: Well, I-I feel like this a trick question.

    Varga: There's an accounting coming, Mr. Stussy. Mongol hordes, and what are you doing to insulate yourself and your family? You think you're rich? You've no idea what rich means. Rich is a fleet of private planes filled with decoys to mask your scent. It's a bunker in Wyoming and another in Gstaad. So that's action item one: the accumulation of wealth. And I mean wealth, not money.

    Stussy: What's action item number two?

    Varga: To use that wealth to become invisible.

  16. #44
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