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Thread: John Michael Greer on brexit

  1. #1
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    Default John Michael Greer on brexit

    Any thoughts? Is he right?



    I think probably.

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    I don't mean to be difficult, but I feel some kind of precis would be helpful here.

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    He's a druid. He called trump's victory. He says that labour voters (like current democrat voters is US) are no longer working class people, but metropolitan elites who are culturally left wing but economically neoliberal.

    He says that in a supply and demand labour market, if you have open immigration, poor people get priced out of the labour market. Probably more nuance and he does say that you can't really say it, ie. It's an unpopular opinion. But he thinks it's true.

    I mean probably old hat but I think he's got a point.

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    Sounds like unempirical concern trolling tbh.

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    I don't know what you mean

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    Clearly we don’t have “open immigration”.

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    1. Lots of working class people continue to vote for Labour, as seen by the vote in 2017.

    2. I don't think the Democrats and the Labour Party are seriously comparable

    3. Whilst he may think it is true because it is 'logical', empirical studies have shown weak support for the notion that 'open immigration' from the SM has depressed wages or reduced access to the labour market.


    I'm probably using concern trolling loosely because he is probably presenting himself as a neutral figure rather than an ally or (former) member of the Left. But there is a striking resemblance between these talking points and those that might be made by a Dave Rubin, Sargon, or Furedi follower. Do you think if I was to listen to this podcast I would find a pov that differs significantly in nuance from those positions?

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    There are a number of factors involved in wages being shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    Clearly we don’t have “open immigration”.
    Yeah sorry, that was a poor way of putting it. I think what he says is that any kind of immigration negatively affects poorer people. I'm not saying (and nor does he) that it's a good or bad thing (immigration). What he's saying is that it has an effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comelately View Post
    1. Lots of working class people continue to vote for Labour, as seen by the vote in 2017.

    2. I don't think the Democrats and the Labour Party are seriously comparable

    3. Whilst he may think it is true because it is 'logical', empirical studies have shown weak support for the notion that 'open immigration' from the SM has depressed wages or reduced access to the labour market.


    I'm probably using concern trolling loosely because he is probably presenting himself as a neutral figure rather than an ally or (former) member of the Left. But there is a striking resemblance between these talking points and those that might be made by a Dave Rubin, Sargon, or Furedi follower. Do you think if I was to listen to this podcast I would find a pov that differs significantly in nuance from those positions?
    Don't really know those people sorry. I mean, have a listen, if you don't like it or don't agree, that's fine. I thought it was quite persuasive.

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    I'm sure he knows how to spin a good yarn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catalog View Post
    Yeah sorry, that was a poor way of putting it. I think what he says is that any kind of immigration negatively affects poorer people. I'm not saying (and nor does he) that it's a good or bad thing (immigration). What he's saying is that it has an effect.
    “Any kind”?

    So if a single family comes to live here from Uzbekistan, that will have a negative effect on poorer people.

    But that isn’t a good or bad thing.

    This is the argument you are bringing to Dissensus, this weekend. From a Druid.

    OK.

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    i feel like you're trying to catch me out, so maybe best if you listen to the interview and then you present your thoughts?
    or if you already feel like it's not worth it, then i've obviously failed to present the argument well enough.
    just by the by, i don't really get why this is particularly a problem this weekend... do you mean cos of the decision on parliament?
    i've been away for a week, listened to it before i went, it burnt a hole in my head.
    i thought that's what dissensus was for?
    but if not, sorry if i've caused you some kind of offence.

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    Dissensus is not about posting up 82 minute videos and saying “hey wow guys, what do you think of this?”

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    It sounds like you got 'red-pilled' basically.

    The basic answer to your original question is no, there's nothing right, useful or particularly interesting about this narrative.

    If you want to be a really high level neoreactionary, then you haven't necessarily come to the wrong place - but they ain't training footsoldiers here

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