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Thread: The Moon

  1. #16
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    full moon or near full moon last night. got me thinking about this exhibition i went to a few weeks ago at MOSI (Museum of Science and Industry) all about the Sun. Reaslly good, and the first section was all about how the sun has been used for timekeeping and all the various devices like sundials etc.

    And then yesterday was the 550th birthday anniversary of Guru Nanak and i was talking to my mum about it, she said the exact date varies each year, of the birthday, cos it's according to the moon.

    So just started thinking about lunar vs solar calendar systems and what that might do.

    Presumably the Indian calendar has aspects of lunar because of the Islamic influence?

  2. #17
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    the moon can be partial, therefore open to something more, whereas the sun is always whole, apart from the brief 'bleeding' at dawn and dusk. the sun is the perfect circle, while the moon is in a state of becoming.

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  4. #18
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    The moon is much more relatable because of that constant state of flux
    Took a rest stop that wasn't on the schedule

  5. #19
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    It's odd how Islam is the only lunar religion. Like it's really odd, to say that it came from the same geo region as Judaisim, Christianity, that it centered around the moon, rather than the sun. a conscious orientation towards the night. i mean you clearly need all three (earth, sun, moon) but why is islam the moon religion?

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  7. #20
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    Quick Google came up with this

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_as_a_lunar_deity

    Maybe third or sufi can shed some light?
    Took a rest stop that wasn't on the schedule

  8. #21
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    cheers, interesting, not read it all, but this sticks out straightaway:

    "The use of the crescent symbol on Muslim flags originates during the later Middle Ages" which says a lot i think? crusades. they might have been pushed into adopting that symbolism, cos they needed a counter symbol, and if you've got the knights with the sun, then the moon is an obvious choice i suppose.

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  10. #22
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    Did you see the bit about it possibly being linked to paganism, and moon worship is actually forbidden in the Quran? Want to dig in a bit more later. Looks like it could be juicy
    Took a rest stop that wasn't on the schedule

  11. #23
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    Yeah it all seems a bit ambiguous/contradictory to me on a quick read. Eg this:

    "The Quran emphasises that the moon is a sign of God, not itself a god"

    I'm not sure it really matters what official Islam says tbh, the crescent moon is used on a lot of modern mosques up north.

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  13. #24
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    Nah, Allah as Lunar deity is retrospective hateful revisionism.

    Just like the other 2 "religions of the book", Islam has always been sternly monotheistic as a core tenet and as a distinctive feature, particularly in the earliest days.

    So, the Kaaba in Mecca was apparently a pre-islamic gathering of idols, including Allat (mentioned there) and probably the moon and what not (they were all kicked out and it's now empty, like the Jewish temple was, apparently much to the disappointment of the romans).
    There is the black stone there too, if course, which is distinctly cosmic and lithic etc, and still revered in Islam
    There is no conclusive pre-islamic "historical" mention of Mecca, the tradition is that it goes back to Abraham - his footprint is preserved in the middle of the concourse.

    So Islam was a very progressive and modern force from the start, scientific and embracing rationality. Dictating improvements to women's entitlements, and inclusive across race and religions - a superceding ideology,

    I follow a brilliant twitter that posts up early islamic rock carvings which connect all this with the historical record in Arabic that is still easy to read

    The original banner of Islam was the one adopted recently by the neo-primitives of ISIS - the black flag with the declaration of the faith, in that same early calligraphy and the prophet's seal. Some very early relics can be seen among the ottoman leftovers in the topkapi palace in istanbul as well as scattered around the islamic world.

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  15. #25
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    There are other lunar religious calendars as far as i know - not that far
    Ethiopian and maybe other orthodox christianities have hybrid calendars with 12 lunar months and an extra one to fill up the year.

    I was discussing just yesterday actually about how come it's October not Octember (like Nov and Sept). There must be a reason but maybe nobody knows it

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  17. #26
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    What has long fascinated me is that we are actually on the Babylonian calendar still. That's one of the oldest, we're about 5000 years in now. That is where we get the 7 day week from (there have been other shaped weeks but none survive now, basically) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar that's when the humans moved from observing time to predicting it, as well as numerous other basic human evolutions, some good some bad.

    We've had schisms and year-shifts, shuffled months and so on, so there are all these alternative calendars, and some people reckon we may have skipped a whole century during the dark ages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calend...tyle)_Act_1750

    But as far as I know we have never skipped a day of the week, so the Babylonian market day is still our market day.

    fully makes sense to me

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  19. #27
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    i like the contrast between the calendar havoc that the moon and sun's incompatibility sow,
    compared to the science-defying immaculate perfection of the solar eclipse

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  21. #28
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    Very interesting Sufi, thanks. I've heard from my (Sikh) cousin recently the story about the kaaba being full of idols. Of course he put an indocentric spin on it - 'Muhammad wanted to destroy the black stone itself, but it was too powerful. It represents the Shiva lingam'.

    I'm curious as to your thoughts on the current use of the crescent moon as a signifier for Islam though. Why is it so prominent?

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  23. #29
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    Yeah, top work there, sufi. Above and beyond really. The black rock is an interesting one.
    Took a rest stop that wasn't on the schedule

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  25. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sufi View Post

    I follow a brilliant twitter that posts up early islamic rock carvings which connect all this with the historical record in Arabic that is still easy to read
    Care to share? Sounds good

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