what elevates pop music over dance music?

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thirdform

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I like what barty said of jungle being precisely appealing as a futurist statement because it was the familiar. when it got techy and felt like it was going into fairly unfamiliar territory, people just didn't know what to do and let the rock audience take it over.


this tune is about 25 years ahead of it's time. all that industrial dancehall boomkat is repping is basically this.
 
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thirdform

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futurism didn't exist as a dynamic phenomenon even in its 80s and 90s hayday. it was always an imaginary, and fairly out of date one. but never underestimate the power of myth, they can be thousand years out of date and still provide great works of beauty and horror.
 
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thirdform

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___

thirdform said:
this is what I've been trying to say all along on this bord but people seem to take umbrage with it. the thing is the hardcore continuum was basically the 50s-70s windrush generations music, for a past that was lived. todays music is basically the music of the 90s techno utopians. xanax on tap, pint of tindr, bit of okcupid, home delivery. it's what the cybernetic people wanted and then some, but because their critiques of consumer society were formulated in the 70s-early 80s, they still had to approach the acid house revolution as their novel ideas being realised, rather than them just catching up to the technological capabilities. a truly future music, well, it would have to be divorced from all referents entirely. the concrete guys tried to do this but you can hear the themes of classical composition and that education still being there. futurism has always been an imaginary because the species productive capabilities always moves faster than its consciousness at any given point. put it this way, we don't make the world we live in for ourselves, we set our children into motion and shuffle off this mortal coil. by the time our real impact is felt in the world, we have spent our wages and been buried in our graveyards (I mean literally dead not metaphorically.) Today I am not the change I want to be but living in the existence unconsciously determined for me by the previous generation. this is unavoidable.
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thirdform

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catalog said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. Surely nuum music is smashing together of the children of the windrush with their racist counterparts?! And they discover PLUR in the process??
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no my point is that musical technology had outstripped what was being made in hardcore-jungle in 1992. the ideas of future that were projected to it were necessarily formulated in the past. It's like the two variants of techno, melodic and industrial. they are two different types of futures, and one does not necessarily invalidate another (tho it can) but those visions were formulated long before 1987. It's to do with the cheapening of basically crap production technology which was overpriced to begin with. that's the only real subversive element in electronic music, the utilisation of surplus to create sounds with no correlate in nature.
 
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thirdform

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there are two main gradiants with infinite future for me in terms of synthesis. on one hand you have the oceanic or the extra-terrestrial or the spacey or even the womb.





 
T

thirdform

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now that conception of the future is a perpetual battle to make the artificial more an aspect of daily life. I don't have a problem with that per se, however in my aesthetic leanings I have to moderate that tension (ofc this isn't always strictly an either/or thing) because when the artificial just pretends to be another musical instrument, what's the point? And by musical instrument I don't just mean a synth being played pianistically but the use of technology to fully conform to certain standardised melodic values.

and contrarily there is a gradiant of future that veers to intensifying the artificials artificial and disruptive aspects. I wouldn't say it's less futurist because of it. In a way it is more futurist because it opens up emotions that are a malfunction of the cybernetic system and hence drive man forward to find the sickest most insane sonics even more. a fully closed off future is merely the present.





 
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thirdform

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with this conception of future you are not merely lost to history within the cosmos floating away into the infinite void of outer space. with this conception of cosmos you are hated, despised, and incinerated in a fit of rage. you have upset the order. you must be excommunicated. you are simultaneously the most religious and the most heretical person. you adhere to no outer manifestations of bien pensant custome. You are Hassan I-Sabah.

 
luka

luka

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Big Ben Watson thing that. He hates the frictionless timeless worlds of ambient. Marxist thing.
 
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thirdform

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luka said:
Big Ben Watson thing that. He hates the frictionless timeless worlds of ambient. Marxist thing.
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ha. I wouldn't say I hate the frictionless but I'm allergic to excessive amounts of it. just reminds me of stoners who I can't abide anymore. there's a difference between a stoner and a north-east london weed smoker (south does not count as I told you.)

But glad to be in the same bracket with Derek bailey's biographer :D
 
luka

luka

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This is partly what the Xanax thread is about. A kind of panic that the frictionless induces
 
luka

luka

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The spider which can't gain the purchase necessary to climb out of the bathtub. That's the panic of the Xanax zone. And of course it's real. Watson locates the danger of a world without time. The empire never ended.
 
luka

luka

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By creating pleasurable internal conditions the possibility for change is removed. "Without contraries is no progression" as Blake says. Sucking your own cock, an ouroboros of self pleasuring
 
luka

luka

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What really stands out in the Bailey biography is Baileys impatience and contempt for the idiomatic forms of black music, what crowleyhead would call it's 'carni' as in carnival barker aspects. The 'soulful' the 'bluesy' the 'funky' the worn out vocabularies of years gone by. Platitudes which turn to ash in the mouth.
 
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luka

luka

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"from the consumers point of view the internet is facilitating a return (while we are not at work ourselves) to a kind of simulacrum of slave societies. becasue we are minimising friction and wait time.
that is when we want to fulfill a desire to be entertained, or to own a product, we dont need to move. we click our fingers and it is there. whether it is a vacuum cleaner or the new song by the latest pop-nymphet. that is our experience of the internet."
 
luka

luka

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"the frictionless quality of online life is sometimes experienced as the lack of resistance (click a button and its there!) and sometimes it is experienced as the inability to gain purchase. the inability to affect anything at all."
 
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thirdform

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luka said:
What really stands out in the Bailey biography is Baileys impatience and contempt for the idiomatic forms of black music, what crowleyhead would call it's 'carni' as in carnival barker aspects. The 'soulful' the 'bluesy' the 'funky' the worn out vocabularies of years gone by. Platitudes which turn to ash in the mouth.
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I think Derek Bailey is not free jazz in the sense that Peter Brotzmann or Manfred Scheuf or Han Denink is. In fact I hear very little black influence in his stuff at all. It's more an outgrowth of European avant-garde and serialist techniques. Without wanting to get all racial determinist this oversight on his part is why I can't commit to him in the same way I can a masayuki tanagi, I'm always reserved at a distance with his stuff.
 
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