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Thread: Indian influences in the reggae 'nuum

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayneandwax View Post
    near eastern, middle eastern, far eastern, or south(east) asian, orientalism tends to conflate all of these easterns, as it is a projection of the west. i agree, tho, that the orientalist flavor in much of this stuff, from hip-hop to reggae to grime, has been more focused on the signifiers of say, egypt and india, than japan. that's yet another thing that makes jin's "learn chinese" so remarkably strange: the chorus plays that ol' "egyptian melody" on what sounds like a japanese string instrument (a korg koto-patch, perhaps?), while they change yellowman's anti-chinese "mr.chin" refrain into a pro-chinese "mr.jin"; incredibly, they even recuperate (or at least try to) the nonsensical "oo long shong long shong long pie..."

    as for asian-sounding names in jamaican music, partly that's due to the significant chinese community that settled there (and on many other caribbean islands, notably cuba) in the late 19th century. many of the producers you name are, indeed, chinese-jamaican.
    some pictures of the chins
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/gall...ture=338541210

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bang Diddley View Post
    have a google for 'chutney' for the indian influence on caribean music, both reggea and soca.

    yep ganja was introduced by indian traders and indentured labour.

    edit : http://aingram.web.wesleyan.edu/chutney.html
    the guys who run my local carriib restaurant are trini indians as it goes. Aren't jamaican indians called coolies often too, it's a derogatory term thats stuck as a description
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie
    as in coolie dance, lenky's mixed heritage black and indian himself.
    Last edited by mms; 06-03-2009 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #18
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    yep coolie and lala i think. like you say its a derogatary word.

  4. #19
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    werent sly and robbie influenced by asian music (bhangra in particular apparently) after they visited the uk in the late 70s/early 80s? im sure ive read something about that.

  5. #20
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    Raga-ragga-jungle: let's make it the new genre for 2009.

    Actually, listening back to the Heatwave England Story mix (fuggin awesome stuff, of course) there are a fair few tracks which cross dancehall with British Asian music (what I would call bhangra, but I may be incorrect in my usage). It took me a little while to get used to, as it's very different from what I'm accustomed to - especially in the shape and phrasing of the melodies - but reckon it's pretty good, very upful and infectious.

  6. #21
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    if you mean like that roots manuva and ty album (cant remember what else was on that album right now), that was around the time when everyone in hip hop and R&B was sampling middle eastern and south asian sounds (timbo/missy, truth hurts, erick sermon etc etc)... its more desi beats than bhangra really (though theres overlaps there too).

  7. #22
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    2 pages with no mention of Apache Indian? Also, Sly & Robbie's Reggae Bhangra compilations.

    Supercat was half Indian IIRC.

  8. #23
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    maybe a little offtopic, but one of the folks i stayed with in london circa 96-97 was well into something she called "bhangle", being a totally hyper and rinsing amalgam of bengali fast chat, subcontinental sound signifiers, and junglist breaks/bass.

    homegrl had a fair few cassettes of the stuff, all of which seemed to come from the same shop on brick lane.

    anyone know where i might find more?

    google shows me this:

    http://www.state51.co.uk/hottips/bhangle.html

    and not much else...
    ____________________________________
    http://www.myspace.com/lissajou

  9. #24

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    What happened to Desi? Anyone else remember Woebot's great field trip to a specialist Desi record shop in Southall? That's dedication right there.

    Bhangle! I like that. That's as good a name for a genre as funky is bad.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumdrops View Post
    if you mean like that roots manuva and ty album (cant remember what else was on that album right now), that was around the time when everyone in hip hop and R&B was sampling middle eastern and south asian sounds (timbo/missy, truth hurts, erick sermon etc etc)... its more desi beats than bhangra really (though theres overlaps there too).
    Well going through the track listening, the specific tunes that I was referring to were as follows:
    Tubby T - Ready She Ready (2003)
    Apache Indian - Chok There, Bombay remix (1993)
    Jay Sean, Juggy D & Rishi Rich - Dance With You, Diwali remix (2003)
    Shizzle - Rotate Dem (2006)
    Suncycle - Somebody (2004)
    Blackout JA & Marley - Hot Show (2004)

    So there's quite a significant time-span covered, but the majority of the tracks are fairly recent. It could well be desi elements that are being used - but I will admit here that I know next to nothing about desi, so couldn't tell you either way.
    Also, this is purely based on my personal response as I listen to them, so if someone were to point out in response to a track on the list 'but that's straight-up dancehall', 'that one's just pure desi' and so on, you may well right, but to my (largely untrained) ears I could aspects of fusion or communication going on between JA and modern Asian elements.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    2 pages with no mention of Apache Indian? Also, Sly & Robbie's Reggae Bhangra compilations.

    Supercat was half Indian IIRC.
    and Errol Arawak from King Earthquake Sound out of Birmingham.

  12. #27
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    what are the bhangra comps sly and robbie did??? all i know is that they were inspired by bhangra to do stuff like murder she wrote and some other stuff....

  13. #28
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    Theres a folk music in India called giddha ( literally meaning to clap ) performed mostly by punjabi women and loads of reggea/regggeaton tunes feature this tempo of clapping and dhol. Perhaps reggaeton from spanish based areas gets it from flamenco which itself has an indian lineage iirc.

    I dont know if this is a direct influence on reggae or if its producers looking eastwards for beats and samples.

    for quiicky for eg

    Giddha


    v

    Suncycle - Somebody


    Nina Sky

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabriel View Post
    funny you should say that cos to me diwali has always sounded more flamenco than indian... i remember playing it in this club in spain once and a group of people started doing flamenco clapping, stamping the floor and so on...
    Flamenco music originated with gypsies- who originally came from India... *

    (*Ignoring the arabic/north-african contribution here- it's a mix of many influences, but....anyway...)

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaNa View Post
    Flamenco music originated with gypsies- who originally came from India... *

    (*Ignoring the arabic/north-african contribution here- it's a mix of many influences, but....anyway...)
    interesting, didn't know that (well i knew about the gypsy thing but not that they originally came from india, though actually that does sound familiar but i never put them together)

    i still haven't heard any indian music that the diwali riddim really sounds like though (not to say there isn't some of course)

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