Silverdollar on Grime DJs

Badmarsh

Well-known member
Grime is definitely not something a self respecting dj (into the skill-side of things) would really want to drop? It's music for the mc's.

It's more beneficial then for the dj's to juggle a tune and just drop it, then it is to mix it up properly. I want to see more hiphop dexterity coming into grime...that would be interesting

For me grime is all about the mc's...
 

Badmarsh

Well-known member
Blackdown said:
it's wicked to see this written about grime DJs, but one of the things that was such a breath of fresh air when grime came along was the lack of obsession about mixing.

mixing is so 90s dance music, spotty whiteboys watching sasha's every muscle twitch just so they can tell if one record is playing... or two. bitter wannabe DJs standing on the dancefloor waiting to tut if a high hat goes out of place.

mixing as the sole musical focus is so tediously anal "i... must... fit... this... drum ... beat... over... this... remarkably similar... drum beat....... lookatmeveryonei'mspecial!!!!!"

most of all dance music mixing is ridiculous because its an artform devoted to an event when achieved you can't even notice it. is it two tracks or one? is it a drum machine beat or a 'perfect mix?'

arrrgh!


I've never seen sasha mix but believe me it is a pleasure watching someone like Sneak/Morillo/Carter etc do their thing....an absolute pleasure and as an anulistic dj...i rather watch someone like them...at least i learn something. U can't test their eqing skills...the way they drop a beat...

Got be obsessive about mixing, otherwise your just s h i t mate...
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I'd love to see a house dj attempt to bring in a Terror Danjah instrumental over the top of a dexplicit beat 8 bars after it dropped.

It would be amusing.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Give it a go.

Piano Madness into Fire Camp - No instrumental in 8 bars locked. 16 bars including taking off the last record.

Mack 10 can do it. EZ can do it. I can do it on a good day, downhill with a strong trailing breeze.

Mixing a 4/4 kick drum pattern over another kick drum pattern is pretty piss easy to do. It's more a case of eqing and mixing down the two tracks into a seamless blend over the space of several minutes. That's why you get so many producer/dj's in those forms of music. You are basically using production skills.

I can count the number of decent grime dj/producers on the fingers of one hand.
 

mpc

wasteman
Logan Sama said:
Piano Madness into Fire Camp - No instrumental in 8 bars locked. 16 bars including taking off the last record.
.

what do u mean?

are u talking about being able to mix quickly enough to do this?

do u mean that most djs aren't quick enough to mix in another record after 8 bars or something else?
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Not to sound condescending, but if you don't know what I mean, then you can't really have grasped the skills which are held in regard within the grime scene for a deejay.
 

mpc

wasteman
haha. are you saying you can't see me winning biggest dj at the next sidewinder? i know i'll never be as good a reloader as cameo, but i'm somebody's child...

i listened to a recording of mac 10's last rinse show today and i didn't hear anything amazing. he can mix quite well, but that's the only praise i'd give.
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
putting one tune on then dropping the other one in eight bars later and then taking off the first one after another eight bars? that's not that hard. you just need to know the tempos of the tracks (usually easy enough to remember) and ghost the pitch as you're bringing it in. and if you are only playing them together for eight bars then you only need to nail the pitch for a short period, which isn't that hard. not sure why you'd want to play a track for only 16 bars, though.

I've never heard a grime dj do anything that was as impressive as the best shit I've heard techno dj's do. I'm sure Dave Clarke and Richie Hawtin could easily do what Mac 10 does, but could he do what they do?
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
You need to know the tempos of the tracks? NO, that's how you do a DMC World Championship set.

The best dj's can do that with any tune with some sort of consistency should they want to. Mixing every tune out after 16 bars would sound dreadful obviously.

Why are you sure other dj's could easily do what Mac 10 does? As I said... go give it a try. Attempt to mix Piano Madness into the No instrumental without writing down the pitches on your PDA or practising it 50 times beforehand. Holding 2 basicly structured 4/4 tracks in the mix for 16 bars is piss easy, yes. But neither of these tracks are regimented, tightly quantised patterns. And there's many more like them.

This topic is illustrating to me how you all can read so much about a genre of music but have no real feel for it, or understanding of what is held in high regard by the people actually within it, as opposed to what is held in high regard by the numerous people blogging about it.

You may have heard a Mac 10 who has hardly done a show in the past 18 months do 4 shows on the Rinse fm webstream with no mcs, but that doesn't mean you have heard what he was doing in his prime on Deja week in week out for 2 years. Also just because you have heard Cameo go to sidewinder with loads of mc's getting really hype on a set and wheel a tune up 6 times then drop the next one in, don't think that is the usual standard of djing.
 
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nomos

Administrator
You're right Logan. None of us has the faintest clue about grime whatsoever. In fact we've never even heard the stuff. Only read about it.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Don't exaggerate my point to service a mocking retort.

But if, from your superb vantage point of teh intarweb, you truely believe that djing this music is a piece of piss and any dimwitted muggins could do it, then fair play to all of you. I look forward to your meteoric rises through the ranks of the international grime scene and shall give you a hearty handshake upon you cementing your place as a stalwart in the sidewinder top 10 rankings every year.

Unless doing that would be beneath you, and making ill-founded comments about our music on web sites offers a far more rewarding career path.

I wish you all the best in your future endeavours whichever path you choose to tread.

And returning to the topic title, I found Mr Silverdollar's appraisal of the dj's in question in his piece to be a well thought out and well observed commentary.
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
Logan Sama said:
You need to know the tempos of the tracks? NO, that's how you do a DMC World Championship set.

The best dj's can do that with any tune with some sort of consistency should they want to. Mixing every tune out after 16 bars would sound dreadful obviously.

Why are you sure other dj's could easily do what Mac 10 does? As I said... go give it a try. Attempt to mix Piano Madness into the No instrumental without writing down the pitches on your PDA or practising it 50 times beforehand. Holding 2 basicly structured 4/4 tracks in the mix for 16 bars is piss easy, yes. But neither of these tracks are regimented, tightly quantised patterns. And there's many more like them.

This topic is illustrating to me how you all can read so much about a genre of music but have no real feel for it, or understanding of what is held in high regard by the people actually within it, as opposed to what is held in high regard by the numerous people blogging about it.

You may have heard a Mac 10 who has hardly done a show in the past 18 months do 4 shows on the Rinse fm webstream with no mcs, but that doesn't mean you have heard what he was doing in his prime on Deja week in week out for 2 years. Also just because you have heard Cameo go to sidewinder and wheel a tune up 6 times then drop the next one in, don't think that is the accepted standard of djing.

Man, chill out.

I think Mac 10 is really really fucking good at what he does (obviously, and for what it's worth I have heard a handful of old Nasty Crew sets with him on it) but that particular thing you are talking about is not a massive technical stretch. It's pretty easy to beat-lock two records from the same genre straight away, no matter what the beat structure, if you've been mixing for a long time. I don't really mix any more, but when I did (and I mixed for seven years), I could just slap on a record and drop it straight away and ghost the pitch into lock. Anything you practice you will be good at.

I've heard a lot of dj's in my life, in a lot of different styles, and of all of the different electronic music styles I've been most impressed on a technical level by the best techno dj's (and it's not like they are always playing straight 4/4 stuff anyways, a lot of the weirder stuff is at least as rhythmically complex as grime). This is my opinion.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I'm super chilled.

I've heard numerous well known dj's from other genres trying to mix grimey beats, and it was quite amusing. The practise isn't as easy as the theory in this instance.

I'm sure dj's of 10-20 years experience would be able to physically mix this stuff quick. But just mixing it quick isn't the point behind it. As I said, a set full of tunes mixed out after 16 bars would sound dreadful. There is a definite style and flow to how a good grime set with MC's should go and that is the thing which I don't think people can easily reproduce.
 

minikomi

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Badmarsh

Well-known member
Logan your missing my point...it maybe 4/floor structured beats and that is piss easy to mix, but, those house dj's have a skill in terms of what they can do with their eqing...its a mere aspect of djing...and as a dj myself I look to all sorts of different styles/genres/techniques to pick up new tricks/ideas/concepts.

Good luck to grime going worldwide....I'm sure its got the legs!
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
Logan Sama said:
I'm super chilled.

I've heard numerous well known dj's from other genres trying to mix grimey beats, and it was quite amusing. The practise isn't as easy as the theory in this instance.

I'm sure dj's of 10-20 years experience would be able to physically mix this stuff quick. But just mixing it quick isn't the point behind it. As I said, a set full of tunes mixed out after 16 bars would sound dreadful. There is a definite style and flow to how a good grime set with MC's should go and that is the thing which I don't think people can easily reproduce.

Sure, but as you said back on the first page that's a selection and flow issue as opposed to a technical one. I've never heard a grime dj do something like Jeff Mills and tear through 60/70 records in an hour using three decks and a 909, but then again I don't think that kind of technical trickery is necessary, because being a good grime dj requires something different. Just because I don't think on a *technical* level it's as impressive doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. There's an art to doing any kind of mixing and it varies by genre. What impresses me about a good grime dj is more to do with tune selection, timing, and complimenting the mc's than anything hyper-technical (especially because with mc's on it would sound pretty wack if the dj was really cutting things up).
 

mpc

wasteman
oh yeah logan, i know your tricks (oooh let me just keep posting here to get my post count to over 200 so then i can get woebot's new grime comp...yeah, im watching you...)

i've seen cameo dj once (at fabric). i wasn't taking the piss about him giving too many reloads. it's the way he licks his hand in such a seductive way and then gingerly thrusts his hand toward the cowering record. for that reason alone, he is the best rewinder i've seen. (dj le jack majique is 2nd though) (although i've never seen mac 10 rewinder the records before)

i also have seen cameo in the flesh a few times in uptown (lovely teeth).
 

dev79

Well-known member
the blog had some really interesting points as have a lot of posts here.

i personally feel that flexibility is the key. depending on the tracks, the crowd, the mc's, the dj's mood etc. different approaches and techniques make things work. sometimes i mix n blend, some times i slam it in, i just rock whatever feels right...
 

believekevin

Well-known member
I've been making grime tapes for months as I've been able to get my hands on more 12s via import and napiform. Listening to them each morning on the bus, I'll jump in here and say that shit is easy to mush together but pretty hard to sequence. Never done it with MCs (for obvious reasons.

Old Nasty sets live up to the name in a big way!
 
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