Aesthetics of Cool

polystyle

Well-known member
cool -hot / 1948 -2008

Hmmm,
Matt you are onto something , slippery sure , but a fun Saturday morning thread to jump into ...
Without quoting all the previous good points made , some observations /2 cents :

Checking new sounds , acquiring music as part of an armoring' larger matrix , yes but not only objects and stuff for 'show' , parts of survival armor to mirror - shade back out there

'cool as in (example) 'grace under pressure' and cool as in (example) ' in the know, superior to others' -
these descriptions don't seem so very different ...
Cool, you know when you see it , so Matt , I'm not sure you were off rolling things somewhat together.

The cool of blues - jazz - hiphop - rap - 'frozen wastes' of grime . That's not such a long ride from 1948 to 2008.
Seems smoking herb has been a constant - prehistory , now and post 20th century .

Cool as a way 'to control time' - hold that moment , yes definitely

Yoruba cool , 'the proper way to represent' , Fela - Michael Jordan's game face , cold faces /street face/grill ,
'Don't push me cuz I'm close to the edge' ... , chill'em - killed 'em . cold = survival

hip'. Well , i doubt i'll rd that book , Leland's photo helped make it laughable .
'hip' flips to dip(*hit) to easily . Once tagged 'hip' - next is the trip up

The Japanese character in Jarmusch's "M Train" . Not only are Nagase's mug and hair is frozen - his image of Elvis was frozen . And Tokyo still has it's share of these specfic cats - shabu drivers in kitted out chrome trucks , film and RW Yakuza wannabe's hung up on a just - so image , 'Yankee' quiff mongers , nuts driving through the streets blaring right wing drivel .

Bill Clinton as 'cool' , some could say he was 'hot' in his way too (not ref. in a sexual way , more in the 'media' way)

So overall, i'm throw in that cool is armor, difference , suss and possessing it can let you survive /get you out of a bad situation .
Ever got that feeling you were about to get mugged /rolled and you got out of it ?

Going to tend to rate that as more useful then some of the physical signifiers like authors soul patches/funny sideburns /the right trouser width/ the right book, CD under the arm.

The roots ancient powers 'witchcraft' - voudou thing figures in too, as pointed out .
Gut , core being feelings ...

And yeah, looked at another way another day -
it can all be a bit like a Dave Chappelle's 'When Keepin' It Real Goes Bad' skit

cheers all
 

slanderlord

bloody roar
childOftheBlogosphere said:
Haha, everytime you guys use that word it makes me laugh (dreams are weird, innit? haha). I wish we had something like that in Australia. I still don't quite understand what defines innit. Like obviously its 'isn't it' but its come to describe a wider range of questioning.

When I first started reading about grime on blissblog and "eski," "Ice Rink," "Igloo" - I at first thought "innit" was some misspelling/slangerization of innuit which just made me wonder more about this weird East London / Polar Circle musical axis.
 
Aren't the biggest hipsters the biggest nerds? Aren't the coolest people the most downtrodden? I see being cool as a way of finding a different hierarchy that you can sit at the top of when you're at the bottom of the dominant one. Maybe it goes back to the Romantics, or maybe it's part of "human nature".

"Every human has to tackle with self-doubt, every human has to tackle with the problem of identity, of self-validation and of reassurence that what they are doing is right, or indeed 'cool'. Thus, for a consumer of culture it is only natural to, at times, reflect back on their knowledge and feel proud, high and mighty. This is what you mean by reinforcing one's own fallacious sense of self-worth. For me the idea of cool arose out of people's uncontrollable quest for self-validation in the presence of wider culture and society. I believe it has no more profound meaning, and is in fact a meaningless status that people identify with. It is a societal construct that has no objective meaning (surprise surprise again!) and is created in the process of territorialisation."

Bruz, great point but how is self validation meaningless? Isn't it in fact one of the most important things in the world to some people? Isn't society in fact EVERYTHING? Isn't the self EVERYTHING?

Strictly personally, I think you're right. It's better to try (or to not try, like try without conscious effort) to forget your Self and its place in the ladder of cool/whatever, or at least not take them too seriously, for your spiritual well being and that of others. (but isn't that what makes you cool, and allows you to have an identity? isn't there a hierarchy of spiritual well being?) But this world is made of identities and territories and hierarchies and if you want to function in it and understand it, you have to realise that they're very real, meaningful and powerful things.

That's why Matt is OTM. And if we're talking about music, style is key, and doesn't style almost = cool? Are we listeners just supposed to sit back and say "it's all music man, it's about quality, not style or cool" or do we bask in the reflected glory of our supercool musical heroes, feeling on top of the world because we identify with them, forgetting that it's just superifical and it's just music and taking them seriously because they're just so fucking cool?
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
"Aren't the biggest hipsters the biggest nerds? Aren't the coolest people the most downtrodden? I see being cool as a way of finding a different hierarchy that you can sit at the top of when you're at the bottom of the dominant one. Maybe it goes back to the Romantics, or maybe it's part of "human nature".


that's SO true. that's exactly why i hate 'cool' people. it's fundamentally non-egalitarian.

also, when has anything 'cool' EVER been fun?



never.
 
Idunno Simon, doesn't not caring about looking ridiculous make you cool? Isn't it sort of semi-pseudo-quasi-egalitarian because there can be an infinite number of cools and hierarchies? I mean, the more exclusive and underground you are, the less people think you're cool, but the cooler you are, so it counteracts the extreme inequality of the most popular kinds of cool. but yeah, i do hate heaps of cool people too. but aren't your and my favourite grime MCs the coolest people in the world?
 
Hierarchies are actually quite redeemable, as long as you take their inherent and obvious flaw for granted. They're only always wrong and bad if you think power is, and you don't need to read Foucault to know we're all complicit. See, often what gets people to the top of the cool ladder is not just knocking the others off, it's rebuilding the ladder. And while cool is often pretty damn immoral, it can be moral, a serious objection to dominant values through style instead of substance (cf. er, the sixties?!), and it can be a way of building a new ladder for OTHERS below you (your biters?) rather than just to big yourself up. Re: what robosphere was saying, even though cool is inseparable from external validation, aren't the coolest people in a scene always the most internally validated, therefore most enlightened and self-actualised... hang on, that's just what you said in your first paragraph, so why do you go and contradict it in your second? What's more profound than enlightenment?
 

luka

Well-known member
yeah i think thats a good defence of cool there from the man from aussie. the bit about dissembling and reassembling the ladder is important. (( like matt says the psuedoynms are pretty impenetrable. finney, mcdougal, who is it?! ))
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
well, yeah, there are a multiplicity of heirarchies out there, but i still find the desire to be on 'top' of ANY of them totally repellent. the desire to mark one's self out as superior to others is just something i can't stand.

that isn't to say i find competition repellent. rather, 'cool' seems more insidious: it's not just about wanting to be better than other people in some respects, or the best, but rather the desire to look down on other people. it's a desire for some higher status than others rather than a higher achievement than others.

are my favourite grime MCs the coolest people in the world? i dunno. not really in the sense that i'm worried about 'cool'. there doesn't seem to be much concern to look down on others, but rather a concern with being the best MC out there.

also, what i dislike about 'cool' is how painfully self-conscious, over-deliberated and non-spontaneous it can make people. that's nothing to aspire to. and i don't think it's something that many grime MCs can be accused of.


i don't really like everett true, but i did like it when he said: 'Never trust someone who thinks they're cool'.
 

xero

was minusone
Terror Danjah Australis said:
Aren't the biggest hipsters the biggest nerds? Aren't the coolest people the most downtrodden? I see being cool as a way of finding a different hierarchy that you can sit at the top of when you're at the bottom of the dominant one. Maybe it goes back to the Romantics, or maybe it's part of "human nature".

I heard quite a convincing case that 'cool' developed amonst african slaves in the us, perhaps an extension or application of west african traditions that have been already cited in this thread. An expression of power for the powerless and a way of communicating agression without violence which was subject to draconian punishment - the same conditions that in south america gave rise to capoeira
 

luka

Well-known member
the desire to mark one's self out as superior to others seems to me to be the source of anything good that has ever happened in the world.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
yeah, i'd agree that the desire to be superior to others can be a source of good things. but i think the desire to be cool goes beyond that- there's a difference between wanting to be better than others and wanting to be 'cool' in the sense of marking yourself out as of a higher status than others, of wanting to look down on others.
for example, athletes want to be better than other athletes. but this isn't a problem. they see their fellow atheletes as, fundamentally, their equals. people who think that they're cool also think that they are better than other people in certain respects. but, crucially, they don't see the people that they are better than as their equals. that's why they're so condescending or patronising. that's why i hate them.
 

Rambler

Awanturnik
I agree with what Simon's saying here - the desire to mark yourself out as better than others, as superior is not an attractive thing - but isn't it also, in the end, pretty uncool? The ladder that put you up there among the cool (and let's not forget that coolness is often something thrust upon people, rather than something they create for themselves) can easily bring you down. That's the conclusion of Quadrophenia isn't it? If you self-consciously construct yourself as cool (Sting's character), people might fall for it for a while; but ultimately you'll never be able to hide the fact that you're actually just a bellboy, and deeply uncool.*

Choosing to be cool is impossible - it is unattractive, a false position - and thus the cultural forces that define cool for you will eventually find you out.

* You also end up dancing really badly.
 

luka

Well-known member
cool in its purest form is an aesthetics of being in the world. you're talking about a debased version. genuinely cool people make the world a better place. its a talent, a gift, and dpends on a very acute understanding of social interaction, body language, signs blahblah. i can't believe people would try to say its a bad thing. appaling. don't be churlish.
 

Rambler

Awanturnik
Well, you could equally say that he just chose to play jazz trumpet - it's everybody around him that decided that he was cool.

And I know, 'Birth of the Cool', but that's tapping into a particular definition of cool isn't it? - and in turn creating a genre term of its own that is yet another etymological spinoff. As has already been pointed out on the thread, the definitions are really messy - for the record, in my post above I was referring to the later definitions of cool - 'you're so cool, man', that sort of thing.
 

Rambler

Awanturnik
Well, I also don't believe cool is actually a bad thing. I just think that saying 'I'm so cool' (cf 'We're soooo crazy') is a deeply uncool attitude. People saying 'He's so cool' isn't a problem - and the qualities that person embodies, the things their coolness gives to the world, is a gift.

Although, thinking about it, I can't think of anyone I admire purely for being cool. Everyone cool that I admire, I admire because of their actual gifts; being talented, dressing well, having excellent taste, great style - these things might make you cool, but without them, cool is just an empty vessel.

I dunno. The way I actually use 'cool' as a word every day is really really devalued - it's about as useful as 'fuck' these days. It's such a catch-all word it's hard to break it down so that it actually means anything.
 

luka

Well-known member
miles davis was very consciously attempting to be cool. saying rather than admiring someone for being cool you admirethe way the dress, hold themsleves, phrase things, etc is a bit like saying you don't admire rooney for being a good footballer but for being good at dribbling,scoring goals, finding space etc etc.
 

Matos_W.K.

Active member
Woebot, have you heard of a book by John Leland, a U.S. writer (was a very influential pop critic for Spin and the Village Voice in the '80s), called Hip: The History? I've read it, liked it a lot though it's a bit lumpy in places. Might wanna check it out.
 

sufi

lala
lovely thread,
there's an excellent archaeology of cool in west african religion in this book, (i showed it you before, no, matt? i'd recommend for eden especially...)
Flash of the Spirit - Robert Farris Thompson

he derives the concept directly from the Yoruba concept of itutu

redcrescent said:
It would be interesting to investigate this concept of cool with the notion of maintaining 'itutu' ("grace under pressure") as attributed to people like Fela Kuti.
 
It's me Keith, Luka. What's up? childoftheblogosphere is my little bro.
My pseudonym doesn't suck too bad does it? Do any non-Australian grime fans actually get the joke?
 
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