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Thread: has hip hop been "aesthetically brutalised"?

  1. #16
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    i thought everyone already knew that! the time out journalists do their best, but you know that underneath it all, they probably loathe it. you just have to look at their end of year picks. they just have to cover it a little more than they used to now due to its popularity. i still have no idea why morley was picked for that docu on chuck d on bbc2, there are a million other hip hop journos they could have picked instead.

  2. #17
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    the time out journalists do their best, but you know that underneath it all, they probably loathe it. you just have to look at their end of year picks. they just have to cover it a little more than they used to now due to its popularity.
    bullshit. i'm a time out journalist. actually we don't loathe hip hop at all, just mediocre hip hop, of which there seems to be a surfeit these days. end of year picks? yes, taking OTHER TYPES OF MUSIC into consideration, how stupid and inconsiderate of us!

    next time find out the truth before you shoot your mouth off, otherwise shut up about things and people you know nothing about.

  3. #18
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    time out along with every other mag is lead by music marketeers / p.rs and advertisers.

    time out is m.o.r ...

    gotta agree with stelfox re: general ignorance about hip hop - i met a musician the other day who seemed to think hip hop came from los angeles.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    bullshit. i'm a time out journalist. actually we don't loathe hip hop at all, just mediocre hip hop, of which there seems to be a surfeit these days. end of year picks? yes, taking OTHER TYPES OF MUSIC into consideration, how stupid and inconsiderate of us!

    next time find out the truth before you shoot your mouth off, otherwise shut up about things and people you know nothing about.
    taking it rather personally, arent we?

  5. #20
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    calm down everyone, for god's sake.
    marcello, *i* reckon time out is pretty wack in its coverage of hip-hop, grime, ragga, roots, soca and all manner of other musics
    BUT (and this is a pretty big caveat), aimed at gumdrops (also, mate, stop winding people up), the thing is that it's not really time out's job to be right at the bleeding edge of this kind of stuff.
    it's not what people buy it for and its remit is somewhat broader than that.
    as a magazine it has some fucking shocking writing in it, but also some stuff that's easily as good as the bad stuff is bad.
    anyway, in the sprit of pleasantness and reasoned debate, let's get back to the question at hand...
    Last edited by stelfox; 05-07-2005 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #21
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    i like time out, i buy it regularly, i actually enjoy its music coverage (i think they have some very good writing)more than the likes of Q, but they are more likely to be into say, dalek or diplo, then the likes of dj smurf. i appreciate they have a lot to cover though, but even then, i dont think their reggae/rap/soul/jazz coverage is anywhere near as strong or well informed/commited as their pop/rock coverage is. but anyway, back to morley.
    Last edited by gumdrops; 05-07-2005 at 12:50 PM.

  7. #22
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    time out along with every other mag is lead (sic) by music marketeers / p.rs and advertisers.
    perhaps your inadequate spelling and grammatical ability was the reason they turned you down for a job.

    and fuck it stelfox, i'm not going to sit here as a professional and be slagged off by a bunch of jealous losers.

    you want to improve things, go write to john lewis, ask him to give you some work. if you don't like what we do in time out then go and read the source or start your own fucking magazine where you can write 60,000 word treatises on diplo and wank yourself silly if your bank manager will let you.

    otherwise start showing me some proper respect. it's about fucking time people here did.

  8. #23
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    Default Aesthetic brutalisation

    What I took from Morley’s comment was as much visual as to do with beats and lyrics – the whole spectacle reduced to big pimpin/in da club/honeyz on my arm, the black-american community exercising their right to have a good time. Or rather pop music directors serving up and perpetuating these obscene stereotypes for a white audience. Come down, we’ll get you a ho, but don’t annoy us as we still be Gs. Disgusting. Even on the recent 101 Dvd of Stones Throw videos, too many of the acts had to resort to this kind of programmed overexuberance in front of the camera. I still like a lot of even chart-based hip-hop but the overall presentation is embarrassing…
    Ps – I took great pleasure informing my family when Snoop came on Live 8 that he wasn’t even allowed in the UK 11 years ago. Not so much “kick this evil bastard out” as “kick this entertainment whore out”.
    Ps II – Time Out is a well laid out “go out and consume” mag aimed not at the early adopters – who never need to be told what to do and where to go – but the next set down on the awareness scale; those who won’t settle for a life in the Slag & Lettuce but need some informing…

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    perhaps your inadequate spelling and grammatical ability was the reason they turned you down for a job.

    and fuck it stelfox, i'm not going to sit here as a professional and be slagged off by a bunch of jealous losers.

    you want to improve things, go write to john lewis, ask him to give you some work. if you don't like what we do in time out then go and read the source or start your own fucking magazine where you can write 60,000 word treatises on diplo and wank yourself silly if your bank manager will let you.

    otherwise start showing me some proper respect. it's about fucking time people here did.
    what a fucking twat. i only hope for your sake that this is some kind of 'joke'

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    otherwise start showing me some proper respect. it's about fucking time people here did.
    self-obsess much?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    otherwise start showing me some proper respect. it's about fucking time people here did.
    is that you, rodney dangerfield?

    Last edited by cooper; 05-07-2005 at 03:30 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiquet
    i only hope for your sake that this is some kind of 'joke'
    It has to be!

    Could have done with a better punchline though...

  13. #28
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    @rachel - i was turned down for a job there once - are you hiring now?

    writers right, editors spell...

    lol @ culla - 'the slag and mattress'

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    and fuck it stelfox, i'm not going to sit here as a professional and be slagged off by a bunch of jealous losers.
    that's why i said for everyone to calm down and i'm sure as hell that none of the criticism of time out was directed at you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    you want to improve things, go write to john lewis, ask him to give you some work.
    i might think about it but i honestly don't think they pay enough to make it worth my while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    if you don't like what we do in time out then go and read the source or start your own fucking magazine where you can write 60,000 word treatises on diplo and wank yourself silly if your bank manager will let you.
    i'm more of a vibe man, myself, diplo i'm not really keen on, re wanking, you should always go for the old classics like the 1988 razzle school dinnerladies special edition (yes this does really exists, no i don't own it and never have), re the bank manager, i should imagine that he'd have a fit if i approached him about starting another magazine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Verinder
    otherwise start showing me some proper respect. it's about fucking time people here did.
    pure vintage. i happen to be in an extraordinarily bad mood today, for reasons *way* more important than someone saying they don't like a magazine i write for and this has made me laugh like a drain, which i really needed.
    Last edited by stelfox; 05-07-2005 at 02:38 PM.

  15. #30
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    I don't really think about the lyrical/thematic concerns of hip hop or how they might be limiting any more. I kinda remember vaguely wishing it wasn't all post-gangsta but that was when I was just starting to get into it, the same way I thought house was "too repetitive" when I was first getting into it.

    Thing is, saying something like "house is too repetitive" is simultaneously sensible and non-sensical:

    sensible insofar as the speaker might like another, less repetitive style more

    but nonsensical insofar as repetition is the point of house: a lot of the enjoyment comes from seeing how the music works within those constraints.

    And US hip hop - which, as stelfox says is actually astonishingly varied anyway - is kinda similar to that. The deliberate repetition of certain topics and themes becomes a frame for developing and showing off other things - a distinctive voice, great wordplay etc. And then there's grooves, sonics etc.

    Guns and drugs and booty may seem like odd, arbitrary choices for frames but, well, afrofuturism doesn't seem to work any better. Probably any topic would become boring if elevated to the same level of predominance - that's the price of focus.

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