Poor State of Grime

Pearsall said:

I get the sense that grime is considerably smaller than jungle was at its 94/95 peak in London. I believe that 'Run the Road' has done about 15k so far, but didn't Logical Progression do about 80-90,000 units? Hell, big jungle releases back in the day could easily do 20,000 copies just off vinyl.

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15k is a very healthy amount given the size of the scene.

I think that Grime is at that stage now where people are interested and asking "what's good?" - the problem is that the answer is often "some white labels you can't buy any more and some pirate stations that you can't pick up where you live".

there's a logan sama interview on someone's blog where he says that grime has yet to conquer london, citing that the fact there arent any raves happening as proof.

i know much has been made of grime's 'grassroots' popularity, which im not denying, but it might not be as widespread as hoped. i work with some teenage schoolkids in south london, and while im not saying they are the ultimate representation of all kids in london, most of them dont really rate grime at all! not even dizzee! i was quite dissapointed.

gumdrops said:

there's a logan sama interview on someone's blog where he says that grime has yet to conquer london, citing that the fact there arent any raves happening as proof.

i know much has been made of grime's 'grassroots' popularity, which im not denying, but it might not be as widespread as hoped. i work with some teenage schoolkids in south london, and while im not saying they are the ultimate representation of all kids in london, most of them dont really rate grime at all! not even dizzee! i was quite dissapointed.

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alot of kids prefer uk hip hop .
my brother is a massive uk hip hop fan and even got certain mcs down to cornwall for stuff he put on. - he got into watching practice hours when he came up to see me recently but for him and his mates it was a confusing revelation.

Lots of kids in South London don't really like the grime thing because for some reason they have this idea that it is kiddie music and the real "thugs" make hip hop. In south you have some very serious people who also happen to make music, and the music most of them make is hip hop, but with crews such as N Double A, Roadside and South Agents coming through from various different areas of South you will see a bigger respect and following for it.

Thats the main thing though, a lot of white people outside the m25 went off garage to listen to drum n bass, and a lot of the kids inside london went off it to listen to the moodier "realler" (read more depressing and violent) uk hip hop stuff.

There aren't enough parties. But then no one is giving anyone the opportunity to go out and play the music.

The only people giving me any work are Sidewinder.... and i've got the biggest listenership for "grime" music in the capital. What does that say?

It's mainly old school garage played by a lot of dj's who are far too young to have ever been raving to old school garage getting paid a pittance so the events are affordable, or your token RnB and Hip Hop/Bashment "Party" crews playing at events.

I'm all for these guys playing a bit of grime or whatever in their shows, in the same way semtex and firin squad do, but there's no grime dj's getting the chance to go out and do their thing at the moment. It's down to promoters not taking a risk on the music.

all grime needs to get back on track is a properly released crazy frog version.

Logan you used the word risk and that's just it RISK... chances are authorities won't even allow your event to happen unless you market it it on the sly. And no venue will take you on either unless you do it like we had to alongside a name like i-D. Problem with events like these is you then have to remember your audience so it's not going to be like a Sidewinder (something I myself don't care about). From promoters to club owners unless it's like that it really is too much of a RISK.

Fiddy said:

From promoters to club owners unless it's like that it really is too much of a RISK.

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Is the concern that the place will get shot up?

Interesting to see that London youth are still big into UKG. Obviously Sheffield is still the home of speed garage. I had a look through the new releases in Virgin and saw EZ was still knocking out his compos too. Personally I'd love to see a UKG revival / renewal, I think there's unfinished business there -- and it would pull in interest in grime too, I think.

it always baffles me how we cant even get a grime/garage dance going yet theres the death metal bands gettin gigs no problem

oh and that pete dougherty dude, a self confessed crack head gets bare gigs

okay....nothing long (c) jammer

outraygeous said:

it always baffles me how we cant even get a grime/garage dance going yet theres the death metal bands gettin gigs no problem

oh and that pete dougherty dude, a self confessed crack head gets bare gigs

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ID mag, death metal and pete doherty...what do they have in common? White people. Thats why you can get an even like ID Live happening because a white magazine (however on the edge it is) co signed it. Its jus a simple fact. Now if the garage/grime scene was more focused and friendly internally you wouldnt have to rely on outsiders to get raves.

Im sure somebody might say im racist but please pay attention to what I typed.

this Sheffield speed garage thing's been a rumour for about four years, but I saw a whole section of it on an online record shop the other day. there's been no effect on the dubstep/grime scene. anyone up north know any more?

Tactics said:

ID mag, death metal and pete doherty...what do they have in common? White people. Thats why you can get an even like ID Live happening because a white magazine (however on the edge it is) co signed it. Its jus a simple fact. Now if the garage/grime scene was more focused and friendly internally you wouldnt have to rely on outsiders to get raves.

Im sure somebody might say im racist but please pay attention to what I typed.

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not everyone in grime is black. not every magazine journalist is white.

is this a race thing ... or a class thing?

yes yes yes...but you can surely understand

Blackdown said:

not everyone in grime is black. not every magazine journalist is white.

is this a race thing ... or a class thing?

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what im saying....

race or class? hmmm....if you wanna get deep into it then lets go but I don't really think people on this forum could take it without 'racist!' being thrown about quite quickly.

That's the thing with Grime. It's more of a class thing than a race thing.

London is such a racially integrated city that, unlike New York, it's just music that young people listen to, not just the blacks or just the whites or asians.

At least it has that going for it. Racially harmony through music

Boy, in regards to the risks, I like to think I'm reasonally presentable and would not be a threatening or intimidating presence in a club. Still doesn't get me any work though heh. It's just easier to book old school or RnB/Bashment. Even though you get the same amount of trouble regardless.

Logan Sama said:

That's the thing with Grime. It's more of a class thing than a race thing.

London is such a racially integrated city that, unlike New York, it's just music that young people listen to, not just the blacks or just the whites or asians.

At least it has that going for it. Racially harmony through music

Boy, in regards to the risks, I like to think I'm reasonally presentable and would not be a threatening or intimidating presence in a club. Still doesn't get me any work though heh. It's just easier to book old school or RnB/Bashment. Even though you get the same amount of trouble regardless.

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that's why i've always liked UKG and jungle before it. it doesn't matter what colour your skin is.

and Logan you probably dont get bookings because promoters are narrow minded. just like many radio playlist managers... and magazine editors... and A&Rs ... and newspaper arts eds... such is life.

Seems to be slowly becoming acceptable though....

I know that Kiss have really gotten behind the Roll Deep LP. And I am about to start my relentless campaign toget someone to be brave and play Murkle Man in the daytime

I think it is harsh to say only sidewinder books you, Logan. You already forgotten about FWD>>?

There used to be a lot of trouble at jungle raves, but they still went off all the time, so what's the difference? Is there even more trouble at grime events, or is it just that grime is too small (compared to jungle in the mid-90's) for venue owners to overcome their worry at possible trouble and be willing to book events?

maybe grime scenesters should stop waiting for promoters and outside parties to give them a leg up and start arranging raves themselves. if 'big' clubs wont have it, then just find clubs located in more remote parts of london....

I think as the point was made earlier, the most of them are spending their money getting the vinyls pressed up. It is a risk for someone else to take I would expect, as arranging a record is pretty tricky, let alone promoting as well.

Personally, I make £50 a week from grime.

If you know any venues, flyer printers and dj's who I can get all for a monthly budget of £200 I would eagerly await your PM.

The only reason we need outside interest from the scene is straight up funding. Nothing more.