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Thread: Who killed Indie?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    Tim Gane used to be in McCarthy, who i think actually had a track on the C86 cassette. They were an anomaly, an overtly political, leftwing shambling band
    ah ha! its all falling into place!

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    the really great Stereolab album for me is the one they did in tandem with an exhibition in New York, i'm blanking on the title, something like Amorphous Body Music.
    right. will see if i can get this and Random Noise Bursts. The french thing of theirs appears on the suface to be a stylish sidestep, but there are loads of precedents for them. Obv someone like Brigitte Fontaine, the detente between Gainsbourg and Birkin (I have that Birkin solo LP somewhere) also "Melody Nelson" was recorded in the UK with a bunch of library musicians like Alan Hawkshaw. Also stuff like Nini Raviolette and Dr.Mix.

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    I don't know about killing indie but one of the nicest, coolest swerves out of C86 was Saint Etienne. Their second single was a cover of a Field Mice tune and i think they took a certain anti-rock/ anti-rock'n'roll (not the same thing, actually) sensibility within C86 and developed into this neo-mod/proto-Popist aesthetic. In a certain sense, they were the antithesis of Primal Scream (who also killed indie) although both SE and PS embraced house, sampladelia etc.
    There certainly was alot of indie-slaying!!! Escape routes wasnt it? Bob Stanley is def a very indie character. Real collector too, remember him lauding Lori and The Chameleons

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    Didn't Oasis kill indie by making Sixties revivalism mainstream?
    harumph. wasnt it long-dead before they arrived?

  2. #17
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    I like the Indiepop comp too, and I've run hot and cold on Stereolab for years; my two favorites of the handful I've heard all of, for what it's worth, are ETK (go "Motoroller Scalatron") and, uh, the new one, which I played a lot earlier this year.

    problem w/question (a good ?, btw, just a technical glitch): "indie" means so many things in so many places, not unlike "hardcore." but I'll bow to the UK-centricity of the massive. (feels odd to be referring to anything to do w/Sarah Records as a "massive," dunnit?)

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matos_W.K.
    problem w/question (a good ?, btw, just a technical glitch): "indie" means so many things in so many places, not unlike "hardcore." but I'll bow to the UK-centricity of the massive. (feels odd to be referring to anything to do w/Sarah Records as a "massive," dunnit?)
    your quite right matos. i should have specified UK indie. though i wonder if indie meant anything so specific in the US?

    -------

    further thought thats been niggling me all day. the thing about "UK indie proper" was that it demanded from it's audience a very similar affection for the "unglamorous" , "raw" and "homegrown" that grime does. at least to say grime fans in the UK. everywhere else its quite exotic!!!

  4. #19
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    Music for the Amorphous Body Study Center is for me, toghether with Simple Headphone Mind, the Stereolab masterwork. The limited minilp/cd is absolutely impossible to find, but is been collected (actually on the first side) on the Aluminium Tunes album, on Warp; that should be much easier to find on vinyl and still in print on cd. The rest of the album had also other very fine moments, expecially Golden Atom, a sort of Eno of Another Green World meet the Velvet Underground.

    francesco

  5. #20
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    Default C86 survivors

    strange how you run into the most unlikely one-time C86/shambling veterans

    most recently, i was surprised to discover that Tim Goldsworthy of DFA -- and before that, of Mo Wax and UNKLE -- had been heavily into C86 type music. And in a recent issue of Index magazine, he and James Murphy both interview Morrissey

    another one was Todd Hyman who runs Carpark, the IDM/idyllictronica label, also does Acute as in the postpunk reissues (metal urbain, prefects etc), and if that weren't enough, runs Paw Tracks w/ the animal collective. I remember having a long conversation with him about C86 in which i could swear he uttered the words "Shop Assistants box set". weirder still he's way too young to have been into the stuff at the time

    jon dale is all up in that shit, or at least, he's really into the Pastels.

    i have a large number of c86 cassettes which i found in a closet at IPC Towers and have been clinging onto in the hope they'd be worth something on day. but Jon disabused me of that dream by revealing he bought his copy for 2 dollars. In australian, so i dunno, worth about 82 p or something.

    despite loving stereolab i've always been slightly offput/suspicious on acocunt of Tim Gane's extreme scholarly knowledge of music and esoterrorist angle -- with that sort, i tend to think "probably should have gone into writing about music, not making it" (cf recent kieran hebden invis jukebox in the wire). in both cases, fantastic people to talk to about music (well i'm assuming that in hebden's case).

    but when i saw stereolab at irving plaza back in must have been 96 or so, it was one of the most transcendent gigs i've ever experienced -- with the band impassive and workmanlike throughout. so go figure. like saint et, i think they manage to transcend the over-knowingness

  6. #21
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    strange how you run into the most unlikely one-time C86/shambling veterans
    bonk, oops, scuse me

    ecstacy killed indie if i remember rightly...

    but it had a nice analog diy ethic somehow, with kids in snorkels putting out fotocopied fanzines & then whacking out bubblegum pop unrecognizable under layers of feedback, i'm thinking primitives, pastels, j&mc... haha fucking flexidiscs!!!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    despite loving stereolab i've always been slightly offput/suspicious on acocunt of Tim Gane's extreme scholarly knowledge of music and esoterrorist angle -- with that sort, i tend to think "probably should have gone into writing about music, not making it" (cf recent kieran hebden invis jukebox in the wire). in both cases, fantastic people to talk to about music (well i'm assuming that in hebden's case).
    tha must be one thing which separates the true indie band from those that consolidated the scene afterwards (Etienne, PS, Stereolab etc) knowing too much music history. those earlier bands pretty much "went straight at it" with a smattering of vu and the byrds. its really horrible for people who write about music to view music as just and index of influences (i'm atrociously guilty of this), BUT, BUT its even worse when bands are compiling those same indexes themselves. remember when the wire interviewed stereolab and they had a little page afterwards boxed-in of "stereolabs influences" i guess it doesnt necessarily mean the music is going to be weak, but put it this way, i dont imagine you'd hear neu! going into great depth about their influences.
    Last edited by Woebot; 16-11-2004 at 08:57 AM.

  8. #23
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    I always thought that 'grunge' (the mainstream stuff) killed of the secret world of indie, also the whole e-thing. Even the Shamen had a shambling indie past. Oasis came on the scene way after it was dead I agree. I'm only just old enough to have enjoyed the dying embers of c-86 but am still fixated by it's now golden age vibe of nostalgia. I only really discovered Felt, who are the ultimate Sarah band that were never on Sarah, about five years ago.

    Also agree about Simple headphone Mind, it's a cover version of some kraut tune I can't remember, of course Stapletons mix takes it to da next level.

  9. #24
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    Default Who killed indie

    first posting, excuse slight nervousness.
    the two 'lab moments that still remain for me - french disco as heard on evening session when i still listened to radio one (anyone else watch that dreadful self regarding doc. on channel 5?) and the Flouresences ep - them at their locked groove best.
    as to what killed indie it could be argued that whole high llamas/ tortoise/ lab axis put the brain back in rock leaving the indie constituency looking for more (amorphous) body music - oasis et al. But what probably really killed it off was record companies buying up indie labels and putting profit margins above wilful experimentation and loopy collectives - if you think the indie pop rough trade thingy is good check out their post punk collection - now that's what i call indie!

  10. #25
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    those links aren't so surprising, really. i've always pretty much taken it as read that many of the guys like greg davis (carpark) and the animal collective are carrying on this C-86 tradition. i'd be interested to see just how many electronic musicians were big into dc hardcore, though. i'm betting it would be a lot of them and mostly ones i like, too.

  11. #26
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    "most recently, i was surprised to discover that Tim Goldsworthy of DFA -- and before that, of Mo Wax and UNKLE -- had been heavily into C86"

    I'm trying to remember, Tim has an older brother or something who was a real scenester, was in some band. Back when I did Plant Bar on mondays my friend Kevin dj'd happy hour, he's always been a standard bearer of that type of stuff, he put out the Love Is All single recently, anyway, he had Tim's brother DJ once when he was in town, it was all that stuff.

    As an aside, regarding all the talk of baggie killing indie, when I think of indie rock in america I think of the 90s and stuff that was post-baggie. When I was in high school/college and stuff like Stereolab, Polvo, Pavement, the whole Louisville/Chicao axis, Bastro, Shellac, K records, Kill Rock Stars etc. Stereolab was always my favorite because they tied into my then also new krautrock obsession(as well as Silver Apples, United States of America etc) and I liked the songs. Most of the rest of "indie-rock" at the time bored me. Except for New Zealand for some reason, anyway.

  12. #27
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    Oh thanks for 'outing me' Simon

    Couple of points:

    * Surely the 'index of influences' is just as much a function of access/increased knowledge base/sheer amount of music to draw from/listen to? Not that I'm going to say something like 'you know, now with the internet and downloading'. I thought one of the BEST things about Stereolab was that they pointed to their influences, because it led a lot of us lot, who were getting into music during the same timeframe, down some very interesting paths. Krautrock I knew about before Stereolab but they really pulled me up sharp with NEU! I wouldn't have caught Brazilian pop nearly as much without Stereolab shouting about it. Also their links with film and art (sorry Matt - I know I already sent you an email about this), referencing American underground cinema ("Brakhage", "Off/On"), pre-situationist collectives ("Cobra and Phases Group..."), Japanese cinema ("Emperor Tomato Ketchup") and so on. It's a fantastic web to untangle. Same with St Etienne, I was so happy to see the promo image from the film adaptation of "A Taste of Honey" in the photo on the inner sleev of "Foxbase Alpha". The continued Beach Boys references in 90s St Et album titles. The Pastels naming a song "Thomson Color" after a film processing technique favoured by French new wave film makers (I'm going on memory here.)

    * Simon OTM re: Four Tet, bright guy but the music is shite, he's a perfect example of how this kinda thing CAN lead to dross. (Alright, a few nice tracks on "Pause".)

    * Indie vs INDEPENDENT. I know that The Pastels would be quite fierce about being INDEPENDENT but don't really see themselves as indie, it being such a sad tag. St Etienne also I assume. One's become a genre identification, one is a mode of engaging with the world.

    * Awright Stelfox, how you doing, yeah you know Glenn Donaldson, one of the Jewelled Antler guys, was a big 80s US hardcore fan (we emailed briefly about early Redd Kross and Circle Jerks), I think you'd find a lot of the u/g folks have that as an essential part of their make-up.

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    Okay, Fourtet aren't quite as impressive as the sum of their influences. But that Thirtysixtwentyfive one (pre- dialogue single that's 36:25 long) was wonderful- Pharaoh Sanders cruising in the back of Neu!'s car.

    A Jenny Ondioline for the new millenium, it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwd
    * Simon OTM re: Four Tet, bright guy but the music is shite, he's a perfect example of how this kinda thing CAN lead to dross. (Alright, a few nice tracks on "Pause".)
    Gonna pile in here. Thanks so much to John "He's Shameless" Eden for making me a tape of his Four Tet CD (didnt you get it for XMas or summat John) but Four Tet are COMPLETE rubbish. Actually, salivating, wrenched the cassette from the deck and wrapped myself up in its spools. The most unbeleivably grating directionless drivel ive ever heard. And that's toning down my true reaction....... which was more like plain dejectedness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOEBOT
    Thanks so much to John "He's Shameless" Eden for making me a tape of his Four Tet CD (didnt you get it for XMas or summat John) but Four Tet are COMPLETE rubbish.
    Yeah sorry John, that was well cheeky of me :-( However, if you hadnt sent it, and i'm glad u did, then i'd never of heard it would i!

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