Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 81

Thread: Who killed Indie?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    8,149

    Default

    Very interesting thread, given that I barely listen to 'indie' artists these days (outside certain 'alt-country' stuff that might be conceived of in this way), and wonder why I just have no interest in the whole concept anymore, whereas the Pastels, J+MC, Trembling Blue Stars, Teenage Fanclub etc used to charm me with their shambling.

    UK-centric, personal answer: it seems to me to be a conflation of several factors around the early 90s, and most of it has been mentioned upthread. Shoegazing made indie at once nerdy and faceless, and also kind of redundant due to the sonic maximalism of MBV; the commercialism of mid-late grunge kind of stripped off hordes of potential indie converts; and of course, rave culture made indie charms appear a little outdated (tho TB Stars had a house tune, I seem to remember). Then Britpop killed it stone dead when it coopted the very term such that it ceased to be distinguishable fromt he mainstream.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Re: FourTet

    Quote Originally Posted by WOEBOT
    The most unbeleivably grating directionless drivel ive ever heard. And that's toning down my true reaction....... which was more like plain dejectedness.
    Matt! But what would you do if you saw Kieran Hebden busking 14th century ballads on London Bridge?

    Come on now Derek, you praise Four Tet and diss Yo La Tengo? Hmmm. (Both of whom have done their "look mah we can dabble in jazz no hands!" records.)

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Well for Four Tet jazz = a good natured, very occasionally succesful attempt to integrate kosmigroove and sampledelia. It's lounge, but it's lush. For Yo La Tengo jazz means nicking Ornette Coleman album covers and not having to learni proper chord shapes. It's indie rock with attractively frayed bits around the edges, like pre-aged jeans.

    I'm cursed with a myopia where Yo La Tengo are concerned, where everything they do makes me hate them more.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    i like four tet

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    456

    Default

    so is "kosmigroove" now an official genre name? who came up with it? i stumbled across the site while in my prog-roaming phase last year. it's a good name, cos it has a slightly vomitous quality. Suits the slightly comic, can't-quite-take-it-seriously quality of the music it designates, or a lot of it.

    C86 veterans -- i'm looking for confirmation that Rob Young was actually in the Field Mice.

    i'm coming around to the idea that, at least in the UK, Ecstasy killed indie
    -- tim goldsworthy said he went from being into the Bodines 'n shit to dancing in fields off his tits
    -- a guy i know who was majorly into the cutie anorak scene (in fact he was photo-ed for a piece i did on Cutie fashion) went totally nuts for house, all of sudden he was giving me tapes with Landlord and 808 State on them
    -- shamen as was said upthread (i must have seen them about four times in their pre-acid house phase, playing alongside mighty lemon drops and such. even then they were into acid, though --Op art slide projections, Electric Prunes type guitar sounds)
    -- all that cockiness in Madchester that then led into Britpop, the Stone Roses>>Oasis thing, part of it is imbibed from the water supply up there , but a lot of it came from E. Noel Gallagher had a whole phase when he was trying to make acid house didn't he. i think of the whole Oasis phenom as an attempt to have the massiveness and anthemness and unity vibe of rave without any of the actual sonic radicalism of rave muzik. in that Live Forever doc Gallagher said something about the E wearing off and suddenly you realised the acid house and techno was tuneless din and then rediscovering songs and "proper music".
    -- Primal scream was actually the conduit for so many ex-indie types into rave. in fact the friend who dragged me off to my first rave, she'd started going to them cos of Primal scream gigs when they had djs like weatherall as support instead of bands.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    so is "kosmigroove" now an official genre name? who came up with it? i stumbled across the site while in my prog-roaming phase last year. it's a good name, cos it has a slightly vomitous quality. Suits the slightly comic, can't-quite-take-it-seriously quality of the music it designates, or a lot of it.
    that came up here:
    http://www.dissensus.com/showthread....ght=meditative

    and one of the original architects of it showed up. weird that you use the word "vomitous" that was precisely my word for it.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jwd
    Re: FourTet

    Matt! But what would you do if you saw Kieran Hebden busking 14th century ballads on London Bridge?
    knowing my luck heb***'ll show up and whup my sorry ass. john on the other hand will wait till my guards down and murk me. maybe a few months down the line.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Kosmigroove is just above "braindance" in the vomit stakes. Mind you, I do find it a useful word to use for that jazz/not-jazz stuff like Pharoah Sanders, Alice Coltrane etc.

    It's amazingly not jazzy, that stuff, isn't it? The whole notion of interogating the chords, of playing the scales as an artistic technique, is gone. Instead they just swim around the same chord sequences, waiting for nuggets of poetry to happen naturally. A totally different mindset.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    -- shamen as was said upthread (i must have seen them about four times in their pre-acid house phase, playing alongside mighty lemon drops and such. even then they were into acid, though --Op art slide projections, Electric Prunes type guitar sounds)
    dissensus member iueke dj-ed techno with mixmaster morris to the indie hordes on one of their uk tours.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger
    -- Primal scream was actually the conduit for so many ex-indie types into rave. in fact the friend who dragged me off to my first rave, she'd started going to them cos of Primal scream gigs when they had djs like weatherall as support instead of bands.
    I think this is bang on the money and Brighton was the ground zero of this phenomenon I reckon. It was probably the first place the London acid house scene spread to. I remember weirdos in brightly coloured dungarees & bandanas running amok around the town drawn by Boys Own all-dayers and the like. Primal Scream were living there at the time and rather than hanging out in indie gigs & nights (like the afore-mentioned 14 iced bears, Brighton's indie heros of the time) they were regulars at the zap club's early house nights & beach after-parties.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    456

    Default vomitosity

    "vomitous"
    ha! that's bizarre. great minds, eh!

    actually having said that, i'd probably prefer to listen to what's designated by kosmigroove (kablewurggh) than yer actual Fire Music/free music

    weather report, jan garbarek, jon abercrombie etc etc mean more to me than all the screechers, and even starting to get into roy ayers (having used him as a lazy anti-reference throughout the jungle chapters in energy flash!)

    but i'm wandering off topic: what killed indie?

    erm it's innately un-rocking timidity and tepidity? its modesty of ambition and spirit?

    there's some piece by Greil Marcus or perhaps Lester Bangs where he talks about how a certain great piece of music would deserve the word "virile" if only that word had no gender-coding or loadedness. and that's the trouble with indie. that largeness of spirit that you get equally in the Slits or PJ Harvey as much as in the Pistols or the Doors (or any rap or grime you care to mention) is just not in hardly ever. not that that's the only thing music can be about, but....

    the ultimate indiepop song in some ways might be this thing that Looper, the belle & sebastian offshoot, did, a song whose title i forgot, but it's about some long-drawn relationship that drags on for years and years before the boy and girl finally.... hold hands. it's very sweet actually but it sort of distils that whole essence of cutiepop in re. not grabbing life by the jugular

    mind you someone told me the C86 lot were at its like rabbits, so perhaps i'm talkign out of my arse.

  12. #42

    Default

    well yeah i think the secret subtext of indie rock/pop (maybe indie pop is better because it's closer to what i think we're talking about here, rather than, say, world domination enterprises or killdozer) is that these scenes are practically swingers clubs. (think of the beat happening chapter in "our band could be your life" where olympia is portrayed as this kind of granny glasses melrose place where everyone is swapping partners and constantly screwing. and let me tell you, little has changed in the intervening 20 or so years.) i can only guess that the feebleness extends to the rutting itself.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dubplatestyle
    i can only guess that the feebleness extends to the rutting itself.
    laughing out loud at the idea of feeble rutting ensuing once threadbare cardigans have been divested of

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    brooklyn
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by minusone
    I think this is bang on the money and Brighton was the ground zero of this phenomenon I reckon. It was probably the first place the London acid house scene spread to. I remember weirdos in brightly coloured dungarees & bandanas running amok around the town drawn by Boys Own all-dayers and the like. Primal Scream were living there at the time and rather than hanging out in indie gigs & nights (like the afore-mentioned 14 iced bears, Brighton's indie heros of the time) they were regulars at the zap club's early house nights & beach after-parties.
    Was there a connection between the Zap Club in Brighton and the Shark Club, which I believe was located beneath the boardwalk?

    Also, I'd be interested in reading about this era in Brighton nightlife. Has there been anything written on the subject? What kind of music was played at the Zap Club?

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    brooklyn
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    "I'm trying to remember, Tim has an older brother or something who was a real scenester, was in some band. Back when I did Plant Bar on mondays my friend Kevin dj'd happy hour, he's always been a standard bearer of that type of stuff, he put out the Love Is All single recently, anyway, he had Tim's brother DJ once when he was in town, it was all that stuff."

    Yeah, his name is Andrew Goldsworthy. He used to play at Lotus on the LES on Tuesdays. He's also the man behind the music on VH1's "Behind the Music." Supposedly has one of the largest record collections known to mankind. A friend of mine reports that his apartment is wall to wall records, i.e., one must move carefully to avoid stepping on records. So, while I don't doubt that Andrew Goldsworthy has lots of shambling bands stuff, he's got a lot of everything. Prog rock, punk rock, 80s electro, 60s Nuggets stuff. On and on and on . . . . However, so far as I know, he doesn't have an English accent.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •