GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
I would say that Logan is doing pretty well for himself - a well respected dj with a heap of bookings and a weekly 2 hour national radio show, all done on his own terms, playing the music he loves. Logan has said time and again that grime needs to build its own infrastructure, and I think he has played a big part in the infrastructure that is now emerging.
 

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
i'm talking about grime in general, not about logan sama in person. i'm talking about the constant stories that the majors and the media are to blame for grime's lack of success, and not the artists themselves. And yes, Logan Sama as well has complained, on this board, that the majors and other smaller record companies/distributors were to blame that he couldnt get the compilations released he wanted to have released. i'm not saying he isnt succesful, but i think this kind of behavior isnt helping grime but hurting it.

so while respecting his work as a dj and a music promoter, when he comes on this board to voice his opinion, i think i'm allowed to disagree with him,.

yeh of course you're allowed to disagree with him but i also don't think that he's ever entirely blamed the majors etc for grimes commercial failings, i'm pretty sure i've seen him shout down artists attitudes as well as well as a whole other number of things.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
No one got rushed at Sidewinder.

The doors of the Carling Academy in bristol were rushed because they refused entry to Nasty Crew who were booked. They used in house bouncers rather than the traditional Sidewinder bouncers, if they had used the Sidewinder bouncers that would have never happened.

And as word spread that Wiley and Trim intimidated a member of Nasty crew who was inside the venue on their own (that is conjecture at this point however), the members of Nasty who got into the vent went looking for Wiley and Trim. As I am sure you are aware, Wiley and Trim and Nasty crew have been exchanging audio messages with each other via myspace, with people also leaving threatening comments on each other's myspace pages.

Personally, I find it disrespectful that such issues are looked to be resolved at events where these people are being paid to entertain a paying audience. However it could also be avoided by booking certain acts and affiliated artists on different line ups and keeping them apart to ensure you do not have people turning up at events who could get into conflict.

However at this Sidewinder, there was no actual violent conflict between artists, although that would be due to them being kept apart by the promoters and escorted out from the venue after their performances ended.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
I'm in broad agreement with Polz (leaving aside any personal bun fights). Grime faces an uphill struggle in many ways (especially with police) but the persecution complex evinced by many is one of the worst things about this site and the idea that the majors would buy a genre up just to close it down is delusional.

And anyone who objects to Polz taking issue with their opinions should ask themselves what they're doing on a site called Dissenus.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I'm in broad agreement with Polz (leaving aside any personal bun fights). Grime faces an uphill struggle in many ways (especially with police) but the persecution complex evinced by many is one of the worst things about this site and the idea that the majors would buy a genre up just to close it down is delusional.

And anyone who objects to Polz taking issue with their opinions should ask themselves what they're doing on a site called Dissenus.

So you are telling me that a long applied practise of signing acts to shelve them is me being delusional?

And sir, I do not blame anyone nor do I have a persecution complex.

I would ask you to read and consider the words I wrote carefully, rather than make sweeping statements based on your perceived implied sentiment.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
So you are telling me that a long applied practise of signing acts to shelve them is me being delusional?

Labels don't sign acts to shelve them. They take a punt on something that doesn't work out and decide not to chuck good money after bad. The same thing happens in film - studios buy the rights to a book or a screenplay that never makes it past development.

It's not a conspiracy - it's just William Goldman syndrome. No one knows anything.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Labels don't sign acts to shelve them. They take a punt on something that doesn't work out and decide not to chuck good money after bad. The same thing happens in film - studios buy the rights to a book or a screenplay that never makes it past development.

It's not a conspiracy - it's just William Goldman syndrome. No one knows anything.

Labels ALWAYS sign acts to shelve them. Do you know anyone at any major labels?
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
fair enough - im sure there isnt a bunch of guys in suits thinkin, 'lets take all this scenes good talent and halt it from making any progress'
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
fair enough - im sure there isnt a bunch of guys in suits thinkin, 'lets take all this scenes good talent and halt it from making any progress'

No but what you do see is a bunch of guys in suits being told that such and such is generating a lot of interest which is distracting the audience from the projects they have invested in excess or 500k in marketing. And they sign up those acts knowing full well they cannot translate that interest into sales.

And then they do not release anything.

It happens in EVERY type of music and has been an ongoing practise for decades.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Labels ALWAYS sign acts to shelve them. Do you know anyone at any major labels?


Yes. And I can count on the fingers of my third hand the number of times one of them has told me they've deliberately sabotaged an artist's career because they thought he might be a threat to one of their own.
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
so when doogz got signed to sony, they had a similar act who they had groomed and spent alot of money on.

'coz if they were goin to do a music 'cock block' im guessin that is what they would want to do.

and what aout def jam uk, were they set up just to be blockers? 'coz nothing really came of anything on that label
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
so when doogz got signed to sony, they had a similar act who they had groomed and spent alot of money on.

'coz if they were goin to do a music 'cock block' im guessin that is what they would want to do.

and what aout def jam uk, were they set up just to be blockers? 'coz nothing really came of anything on that label

Def Jam UK was set up to try and legitimately launch a UK R&B/Hip Hop industry. And it simply didn't work.

I am not saying people are signed up with the immediate intention to shelve them, but when they are competing with bigger artists for attention they are shelved for a later date to avoid confrontation. And when acts prove to be more of an effort than flinging out a glossy video and mailing out the press release to your buddies at Emap, i media and the NME then traditional A&Ring and artist development in this country for urban acts is SEVERElY lacking.

You must acknowledge that, surely.

If you wish to paint me as someone who is simply sitting in their house crying over THE MAN holding back grime artists from coming out and selling 100,000, then you are being farcical. That is not what I am doing.

But when people are crying out for a compilation of good current grime music which is otherwise nigh on impossible to buy, and labels would rather spend in the region of 400k doing that shitty Sound Of The Pirates CD filled with US Hip Hop and old school garage and losing their arses, instead of dropping 10-15k on a sensible budget for a fully Grime comp it is very frustrating.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
I am not saying people are signed up with the immediate intention to shelve them, but when they are competing with bigger artists for attention they are shelved for a later date to avoid confrontation. And when acts prove to be more of an effort than flinging out a glossy video and mailing out the press release to your buddies at Emap, i media and the NME then traditional A&Ring and artist development in this country for urban acts is SEVERElY lacking.

You must acknowledge that, surely.

Okay, now I agree with you 100%. I would never claim that the odds aren't stacked against black music in this country. Certainly the media and the music magazines play a signifcant part in this and it's sad to watch an outlet like NME - which did once champion music for no other reason than that they liked it - turn into this gutless hype sheet run by marketing men. Equally I wouldn't doubt the A&Ring leaves much to be desired.

But the trouble is there simply isn't much money to be made from grime. It's harsh, abrasive and aggressive, made by and for a minority demographic. This isn't a judgement about its quality, just its accessibility. It's also all about singles and mixtapes - neither of which make any money for majors. (I'm sure you're right that the best way forward for majors in grime is via compilations - is there ever gonna be Run The Road 3?)

FWIW I think you talk a lot of sense elsewhere when you say grime's future is as cottage industry/mid-level indie.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
There won't be a Run The Road 3 because it cost them too much money.

Which is why it frustrates me on a daily basis that I am unable to do certain things in this scene.

I have never once ventured into anything in Grime that has lost money. Never.

The worst I have ever done is made about £200 gross profit on a vinyl release.

If there was more sensible investment into music which has a strong dedicated grass roots following, rather than this wait and see attitude where HUGE sums of money are poured into projects which barely break even, it would be much healthier for everyone involved.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
If there was more sensible investment into music which has a strong dedicated grass roots following, rather than this wait and see attitude where HUGE sums of money are poured into projects which barely break even, it would be much healthier for everyone involved.

In a nutshell.
 
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