GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I know hearsay and conjecture, not things I have witnessed with my own eyes. And I am not contesting the verdict, or shouting out "Free Titch!"

But I believe the information I was told to be true. If Goodz and Titch have not chosen to reveal the information I know, then it is not my place to do so. And it would not have been anything which would have swayed a decision of not guilty. People spit lyrics for each other directly and indirectly every week in the Grime scene and nothing happens. Violence did not occur due to lyrics, it occurred to subsequent incidents in a tit for tat escalation of "disrespect" leading to physical threats.

I fingerpoint the lazy media (not 'bad' media) for not properly breaking down the reasons behind these incidents which happen in underground clubs playing many different types of music all round the country nowadays. People get shot in House clubs. Is it related to House music? No, it is related to the fact that people who do the shooting started listening to House music. Same with Grime and Hip Hop. The people who do the shootings or stabbings are in a part of society who listen to that music.

It's like saying most young muggers and criminals wear baggy Nike hoodies, does wearing Nike hoodies encourage you to commit crimes? Are Nike to blame for making clothing which conceals your identity with such ease?

No. Because many many other members of society wear their clothing and are upstanding members of the community. Much like the other 250,000 people who bought Boy In Da Corner, or the other 100,000 who bought In At The Deep End or Home Sweet Home, are generally fine, upstanding people.

Look at the people commiting the acts and blame their immediate environment, not one of the few creative positive things they have any interest in doing.
 

mos dan

fact music
Yes, because 99% of people are drones, and only Dissensus users are intellectually capable of combining multiple sources of complex information without their minds exploding. Better to eradicate nuance in case one of these sheep gets the wrong idea and refuses to buy Wiley's next album because he thinks it will lead to him getting mugged.

Would you also prefer that journalists didn't even report on Crazy Titch's conviction because that, too, could potentially hurt grime's prospects?

don't misrepresent me - when i said 'people' i meant 'anyone who isn't really into grime', which is the overwhelming majority of the 13 million people who may see your piece. it clearly wasn't in the least bit disparaging. the point is your piece will be the first and only thing most people will read about grime all year. and you know full well that in the event titch had just released a stunning album - rather than been charged with murder - the guardian wouldn't have run anything.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
this is one of the best pirate sessions ive heard this year -
http://www.barefiles.com/download.php?id=823
the instrumentals are almost all brilliant here but the beat at around 43 mins in (the one skepta says is a personal favourite) is especially good. the one slightly before, thats kinda like a 2 step beat (very sweet, but not in the obviously self referential 'tribute' way of some other recent UKG-ish beats) is great as well.

Is it just me or are RollDeep just ON FIRE at the moment? On the Aim High3 DVD it looks like FloDan has cleaned up his act and the rest of them are just gelling together, they really feel together.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
Yes, because 99% of people are drones, and only Dissensus users are intellectually capable of combining multiple sources of complex information without their minds exploding. Better to eradicate nuance in case one of these sheep gets the wrong idea and refuses to buy Wiley's next album because he thinks it will lead to him getting mugged.

Would you also prefer that journalists didn't even report on Crazy Titch's conviction because that, too, could potentially hurt grime's prospects?

Ned, I really don't see that that piece was balanced at all. It was pretty much entirely focused on the links between grime and street violence, painting the music as either the cause of, or as having some kind of symbiotic relationship with, said violence.
the fact is that grime, like dancehall and hip-hop is a music that reflects its participants' and audience's lived experience. people were getting shot in east london long time before grime ever happened - and they'll continue to do long after grime has gone.
there are many reasons for this - music being way, way, way down the chain if even present at all among those reasons
mcs like titch (who, i'm sorry logan, was, by all accounts, a bit off the leash) aren't the only thing holding grime back. in fact, it's debatable that they are holding it back at all. after all, the world doesn't seem to have a problem with hip-hop (i don't really understand this, but maybe most english people prefer to view their "hood reality" from a distance and ignore the real things that happen on their own doorsteps? after all, hackney and newham aren't easy to exoticise, whereas the dirty south, compton and the bronx are.)
they are, however, a fucking good excuse for those in a position to support, nurture and help develop the most innovative and historically important musical movement we have right now to not bother.
it's so solid crew all over again - another "i told you these people cant be trusted" reason to further marginalise an already marginalised section of british society, in this case by not recognising the good this culture does.
whatever has happened, there's a lot more good in, and resulting from, this music than bad. i don't get that from your guardian post.
and getting into endgame hyperbole isn't going to help anyone. no one is saying this stuff shouldn't be reported on. your piece wasn't a report, though. it was a comment and can therefore be called to account in many more ways than a simple account of the facts of the case.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Titch was no psycho. The fact his way of thinking and acing is so far removed from the rest of society at large, doesn't mean he was batshit insane compared to most other people "on road".

I know many many other people who are pretty much the same as Titch. Charming personable peopl with wit and character when they are in a good mood, quite frankly frightening when they are in a bad one.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
yeah, i'm not saying he was mental or anything, just that his behaviour wasn't governed by the same restraints as yours and mine might be, and, frankly, that this isn't a good thing. as proven by this horrible mess.
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Charming personable peopl with wit and character when they are in a good mood, quite frankly frightening when they are in a bad one.

This sounds a lot like what some would call bipolar personality disorder. (Edit - that may not be quite the right term.)
 
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gabriel

The Heatwave
As for Riko, does anyone know if he'll be doing a set at Heatwave again? Missed him both (?) times and was very gutted about it.

we're probably doing a night on new year's eve with riko, not 100% confirmed yet though... if not, then certainly early 2007, probably at The Pool

he's currently working on a couple of tracks for our next mix cd as well

you can download both of his previous sets with heatwave here: www.scandalbag.com/downloads.html
 

Ned

Ruby Tuesday
in fact, it's debatable that they are holding it back at all. after all, the world doesn't seem to have a problem with hip-hop

But is it harmful to grime's prospects to be associated in the public mind with violence, or not? If yes, then clearly Crazy Titch is holding grime back, because he's generating news reports linking grime with a murder - people on this very thread have been saying things like 'Is this gonna sound the death knell for grime as far as the majors are concerned?' If no, then people shouldn't have such a problem with my piece.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
hello, your friend shot somebody dead in the back over a respect issue. That he is nice and charming when in a good mood, doesn't mean he's no psycho. have you never seen footage of neighbours of serial killers telling how nice he was with his kids. You keep defending "Crazy" Titch, and i don't think that's a smart direction, if you want people to look favourable upon grime. You are seen as a spokesman of grime, and at the moment you seem to be defending, or at least downplaying a brutal murder.

Come on, dude. Scare-quoting "Crazy" isn't really that helpful. That's like saying that Jackie O Motherfucker must actually fuck their mothers. I don't think they do.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
But is it harmful to grime's prospects to be associated in the public mind with violence, or not? If yes, then clearly Crazy Titch is holding grime back, because he's generating news reports linking grime with a murder - people on this very thread have been saying things like 'Is this gonna sound the death knell for grime as far as the majors are concerned?' If no, then people shouldn't have such a problem with my piece.

im more than a little tired of this attitude that just cos ONE artist from (insert urban scene) says or does one reprochable act then the entire scene has to take the weight. its like a few dancehall artists saying questionable things about homosexuality and the entire genre being demonised cos of it. fuck that. i dont think titch being sent down is gonna affect grimes chances of getting bigger or more popular or whatever, its not like many people in the majors cared about it before the recent events anyway. i dont think its gonna make a difference. i agree with stelfox that in the US, rappers can be up to no good all the time and it doesnt make a difference on whether labels get involved or not (in fact it seems to be the opposite now with rappers who arent getting arrested or serving prison terms looked at as less authentic - god forbid that should ever be the case here) but i dont think the effects of titch being in jail is really a make or break thing cos well, there wasnt anything to break. people are more scared of grime MCs than they are angry american MCs because its too close to home - it reminds them too much of black kids they see in their cities.

everyone saying that this is all broadsheet readers will know about grime this year might be going OTT a bit (although it does feed into what people generally think sadly) - there has been a fair amount of broadsheet coverage over the past few years and the titch piece i saw last week in the guardian was only a 1/4 of a page - it wasnt exactly front page.
 

Ned

Ruby Tuesday
i dont think titch being sent down is gonna affect grimes chances of getting bigger or more popular or whatever, its not like many people in the majors cared about it before the recent events anyway. i dont think its gonna make a difference.

Well, I disagree - no one can say for sure - but anyway if the actual shooting itself isn't going to affect grime, then my piece on it certainly isn't going to either.

Well done Memes on the reply piece - that is exactly how all this should work.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
i dont think your piece is going to 'affect' grime either. i still dont agree with some of the things written but its a blog opinion piece and did what its meant to do. im glad jamie collisons piece puts things into perspective (or at least a different perspective) though.
 

elgato

I just dont know
hello, your friend shot somebody dead in the back over a respect issue. That he is nice and charming when in a good mood, doesn't mean he's no psycho. have you never seen footage of neighbours of serial killers telling how nice he was with his kids. You keep defending "Crazy" Titch, and i don't think that's a smart direction, if you want people to look favourable upon grime. You are seen as a spokesman of grime, and at the moment you seem to be defending, or at least downplaying a brutal murder.

it seems to me that a lot of the issue is with the word 'psycho', and i think what logan is trying to say is that by that definition, there are a lot of 'psychos' about. it seems to me that your words indicate an unwillingness to engage with the question of the factors which bring about an individual's tendencies... just saying yeh hes a psycho good riddance doesnt rub well with my personal ideas about what can bring about positive change.


further information brought to light by prancehall...

Grime MC Crazy Titch (pictured right) and his stepfather, Anthony Green (pictured left), were both sentenced to 30 years in prison last Friday for the murder of 21-year-old grime producer Richard Holmes. The reported reason for this murder, according to a number of sources, was owing to some lyrics (written by Holmes' friend Shak) dissing Titch's half-brother Durrty Goodz. Not so unsurprisingly, the press are now again implying that grime music leads to violence in economically-deprived parts of London, and grime beefs "erupt into real bloodshed"...

The offending lyrics (from a song which Holmes produced) that supposedly resulted in murder were: "Over the years things change in the 'hood, I used to have a lot of respect for Durrty Goodz... Not no more."

Now, I don't know about you, but those look like the most inoffensive diss lyrics I have ever seen. In grime terms, they're not even slightly offensive. Grime lyrics and beefs between MCs do not give rise to violence and murder. If this were the case, there would hardly be any grime artists left. A lot of beef is just for show, in order to gain more hype for an artist. Well known artists have been known to contact up-and-coming MCs to arrange for diss tracks for each other to be made. Money has even been known to change hands in order for an MC to write a diss for another MC.

So why would the half-brother and stepfather of MC Durrty Goodz, who the "diss" was aimed at, go and gun down the producer of the track - someone who had nothing to do with the mildly insulting lyrics? The truth (which the naysayers of grime have failed to highlight) is that grime producer Richard Holmes (along with Shak, and members of his Piff City crew) allegedly showed up at Goodz and Titch's mother's home looking for Goodz earlier on the day he died. Allegedly, Goodz had previously caught and confronted Shak, and asked him to apologise for disrespecting him. Shak was not happy about this, so turned up at Goodz's house with a number of other guys and allegedly threatened Goodz's mother, who called her husband and sons. It was this that led to Crazy Titch and his stepfather Anthony Green to go after Richard Holmes and his friends, and not the lyrics of a grime song.

We interviewed Crazy Titch for the Party Issue and received criticism at the time for portraying the grime scene in an unnecessarily negative manner, but everyone knows Titch has always had a bit of a temper. Although the murder of Richard Holmes was tragic and completely uncalled for, it is ridiculous and naive to blame his death on the grime scene.

im not seeking to justify or excuse murder. far from it. but whats the point is in just dismissing it as 'psycho' and jumping to quick conclusions and quick judgements with no respect or time being given to underlying social problems?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
elgato;65573it is ridiculous and naive to blame his death on the grime scene.[/QUOTE said:
It's a sad thing to say but unfortunately Prancehall's article just reinforces the fact that this STUPID STUPID killing really did have alot to do with the grime scene, dis led to altercation led to threatening of family led to death. I can fully understand everyone wanting to distance themselves from it, and saying 'it's not about the beef' etc, but they're going to have to get deeper in, cos from the outside it looks like that's what started it.
Horribly complicated.
 

SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
I think that background info is important. That this guy died is tragic, but it's clearly not a case of 'innocent guy gunned down'. If anyone shows up at my mom's house with guys and threatens her a lot is gonna happen, and I'm not a violent person. I think many many people, given the same situation would respond in a similar way. If this story is true then the victim did a lot to escalate the situation into a serious violent one and it's not such a clear aggressor/victim dynamic. Obviously this shouldn't have happened and Crazy Titch did not handle it properly or do the right thing, but to call him a psycho for going after a guy who showed up at his mom's house threateningly is as far from the truth as anything. Still, when it goes to the guns, in the end everyone loses.
 

boomnoise

♫
It's a sad thing to say but unfortunately Prancehall's article just reinforces the fact that this STUPID STUPID killing really did have alot to do with the grime scene, dis led to altercation led to threatening of family led to death. I can fully understand everyone wanting to distance themselves from it, and saying 'it's not about the beef' etc, but they're going to have to get deeper in, cos from the outside it looks like that's what started it.
Horribly complicated.

i really don't follow this line of thought. if, as prancehall highlights, this got personal and there was provocation, this happening had very little to do with grime except for the fact that music was the conduit allowing these events to take place.

individuals acted in all this, not grime music. for me it's a totally abstract idea to relate any of this to grime, just as it is to blame metal for murders.

for me the problem is idea which seems to be prevelant that guns work as resolutions to problems and that they aren't the problem themselves. some one slews my mam, yeah i'm going to be pissed off but i'm not going to go out and shank them.

You're right it is complicated but this isn't about grime. It's about dysfunctional cultural ideas. www.stoptheguns.org
 
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