what are you reading now?
CORP$EY
no mickey mouse ting
'Yet he was determined to present the whole of the relevant text of Genesis, however literally false in his own opinion; as by making God walk in the Garden, or punish .the race of serpents. The surface effect is much what Yvor Winters described, but Milton had a very different purpose; the requirement made him give a grim picture of God, as he came to realize increasingly, one would think, while the work of detailed imagination went forward.'
This is interesting - I keep wondering, reading PL, which bits are taken directly from the Bible, never having read the Bible (well, I skimmed Genesis once, and as I recall the whole story of Adam and Eve is relayed very briefly). And also, Milton's consciousness of God's severity, and him rendering the tormented mind of the Christian through Adam and Eve.
This is interesting - I keep wondering, reading PL, which bits are taken directly from the Bible, never having read the Bible (well, I skimmed Genesis once, and as I recall the whole story of Adam and Eve is relayed very briefly). And also, Milton's consciousness of God's severity, and him rendering the tormented mind of the Christian through Adam and Eve.
jenks
thread death
I keep thinking I'd like to contribute to this discussion but I haven't read PL for many years. I remember finding it hard the first time as I was studying it for my degree but when i read it the second time for my own pleasure i got so much more out of it - i didn't bother worrying about bits i didn't understand or forever ferreting around the footnotes. I like the way the pair of you are just tearing through it, gorging on the fleshy bits that suit your tastes.
Obviously it is a brilliant, dazzling piece of work but it's also as mad as anything in English - an attempt to write a Latin verse epic in English whilst bashing Catholics at every opportunity. The puritan strain of savage violence that runs through the whole thing, its obsession with guilt, punishment and retribution is a peculiar way to look at the world unless your're in a millennial fever convinced the end of the world is nigh. Which may, of course, be why it's so appealing now.
luka
Well-known member
i come from a long line of protestant bigots, presbyterians, plymouth brethren, loads of religious nutters, this lot
https://www.waipumuseum.com/html/migration.htm
etc
https://www.waipumuseum.com/html/migration.htm
etc
CORP$EY
no mickey mouse ting
I think I'd have struggled a lot more without the audiobook to drag me along - I often find Anton Lesser's reading eccentric/wrong but as a general rule very good and especially at supplying the emotion and inflection that its easy to miss without the punctuation to help you (this was a problem with me understanding Shakespeare for a long time)
What I like about the madness of it all (aside from the madness of it all) is that its convolution throws light on the way humans have had to imagine and reason in order to explain where we came from, why we're here, why there is evil, how we are capable of writing epic poems AND genocide, etc. Especially given the context of Milton's life (which I only know a little about), hardly surprising that he would be obsessed with guilt, punishment, justice, divine right, etc.
Edit: and additionally, as the stuff with the cursing of the serpents shows, having to explain what the Bible said, which was considered sacred in them days.
What I like about the madness of it all (aside from the madness of it all) is that its convolution throws light on the way humans have had to imagine and reason in order to explain where we came from, why we're here, why there is evil, how we are capable of writing epic poems AND genocide, etc. Especially given the context of Milton's life (which I only know a little about), hardly surprising that he would be obsessed with guilt, punishment, justice, divine right, etc.
Edit: and additionally, as the stuff with the cursing of the serpents shows, having to explain what the Bible said, which was considered sacred in them days.
Last edited:
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
OTOH I am making it seem like it has been particularly challenging
Actually I've kept finding myself amazed at how interested I am in it. There are intensely boring passages stuffed with arcane allusions but whenever people start talking, especially, it gets good. Actually seems a shame that Milton didn't write plays - except of course Paradise Lost is scaled as large as you can get. And who needs Milton plays when you have Shakespeare's?
Actually I've kept finding myself amazed at how interested I am in it. There are intensely boring passages stuffed with arcane allusions but whenever people start talking, especially, it gets good. Actually seems a shame that Milton didn't write plays - except of course Paradise Lost is scaled as large as you can get. And who needs Milton plays when you have Shakespeare's?
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
One thing I like about it is the way it shows the variety of arguments that can be advanced for and against many moral decisions, while proclaiming that there IS a correct answer, that there is absolute good that has to be reasoned towards. But the sheer power of the arguments AGAINST what Milton believes is good undermines that sense of Good. Not least because God, as the embodiment (to use the wrong word) of good, moves in absolutely nonsensical ways. Milton is great at showing how people (and angels) can persuade others and themselves to do the right or wrong thing. What's boring and inexplicable about God is that God knows all and never questions himself, or anything else really. Again, probably a commonplace observation, but Milton's mind works in opposition to the divine, settled order of things - he questions, he argues, he agonies, etc. There's this double-mindedness to the whole thing which makes it extremely strange.
Last edited:
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Love that picture I'm thinking of getting it framed
In other hell related news which will please you, I read some of "Season of Hell" last night while stoned and I was very into it, particularly the verse bits.
Its a side by side translation and I can see how reading something like that could be a fun way to learn French (though the pronunciation would be fucked I suppose).
In other hell related news which will please you, I read some of "Season of Hell" last night while stoned and I was very into it, particularly the verse bits.
Its a side by side translation and I can see how reading something like that could be a fun way to learn French (though the pronunciation would be fucked I suppose).
