catalog

Well-known member
He's great for that, I think of it as very documentary how he makes you see a place, with all the dialogue and set just right. There's some good bits coming up for you, won't spoil it.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Nah it doesn't go down hill, I just think that I lacked stamina in those days. Some amazing passages coming up that I remember even now.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I read it probably 5 or 7 years ago and took notes on it, which I've re-read a few times. I like how it's operating on lots of levels as well. Like you could tell it as a kids story, but it goes god level as well. And just all the facts and minutiae about the whales, there's a lot of incredible detail, so much so it becomes abstract and about other stuff. It's probably one of the best 'big' books I've read, but saying that, I've not read that many Bigguns.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I do know a couple of people who I've recommended it to who didn't like it, didn't bother finishing it, but I loved it. The issue with it is that there's a fairly long and perhaps turgid bit before the end is in sight, where it seems to go on and on. But once you are through that, the actual end is brilliant.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I feel like I want to talk about the bits of it I really like, but don't want to spoil it for hmgovt. So going to wait til he has finishec
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Matt Woebot hates it, I think he even started a thread to articulate his disgust.
I remember that. Not an aesthetic criticism though... in fact one on grounds that took me rather by surprise in fact.
 

catalog

Well-known member
You are wise rich you never get involved in the fights. I'm intrigued about what woebot found so distateful. I know someone who dint like it simply cos of all the graphic whaling detail
 

droid

Well-known member
Yeah, that was it. It was on animal cruelty grounds. Strange. Like hating Lolita cos of nonces.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
You are wise rich you never get involved in the fights. I'm intrigued about what woebot found so distateful. I know someone who dint like it simply cos of all the graphic whaling detail
If only that were true about arguing....
But yeah, if I recall his criticism was that it was too violent and based on animal cruelty. I don't think that's a valid way to assess such a book. That's both in terms of the time it was written, and also that we still value books such as Lolita which put you in the head of a person whose morality or actions you might - in that case you are expected to in fact - violently disagree with.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Yeah, this is exact same reason someone I know hated it. Cos of all the thick description in middle of the harpooning. I loved it and could read it dispassionately, although not totally, cos that's also the point, and he does that, he makes you see all the wrongs, he doesn't shy away, but I think for certain modern sensibilities, they literally can't take it. I agree this is a wrong way to judge the book, it's like a wood from trees argument
 

catalog

Well-known member
I was reading a conspiracy theory book recently by a bloke called jasun horsley, and he mentions Lolita, he says Nabokov took the idea from a psychologist, I forget the guys name now
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
It's a fantastic book - Nabokov was a genius I think. It's got a lot of humour... doesn't the first chapter pretend to be a psychological analysis of him (Humbert Humbert I mean) provided by someone else? Another of Nabokov's tricks.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Havelock Ellis, that's the name of the psychologist who provided inspiration to Nabokov. Yeah, I should read it sometime soon, next time it falls into my hands I will. I'm reading Chris petit 'robinson' atm, cos it sounded good from a panel he was on with those as n Sinclair. And it is ok, but I just can't get into it. Partly I think cos I'm reading on phone
 

catalog

Well-known member
also reading ovids metamorphoses which is slower but seeping in gradually (i'm on book 4, but there's 13). ovid was roman, writing just before the collapse. it's extremely bawdy, maybe bawdy is not the right word, maybe more just outright salacious, sexual. I keep meaninng to post one of the stories, about tiresias, cos it's hilarious, but i've not done cos it would mean copying it all out. the gist of it is that jove (zeus in the greek, jupiter) and his wife juno (hera i guess, in the greek, i think she is one of saturn's daughters) are having a chat one day and jove says to juno, 'women enjoy shagging much more than men' (jove is a notorious womaniser and a lot of the stories are about him being suddenly taken with a nymph and then basically lusting after her, eventually raping her or similar, so that she then turns into a tree or something. his wife is not too far behind him and is also constantly seducing young lads). she says she begs to differ, that blokes get more enjoyment, so jove says, 'i know, we know someone who can settle this row, cos there is this guy tiresias, who has been ofrtunate to experience life as both man and woman'. there's then a short digression where the backstory of this tiresias is explained. he was basically walking along one day, minding his own business, and saw two snakes shagging. and for some rwason, maybe out of disgust i don't know, he decided to strike them with a stick, therefore disturbing the act. so as a curse or retribution for this, whatever, the snakes turned him into a woman! and he lived like that a few years, till one day he was walking along again, and saw two snakes doing the same thing. so he says to himself, hmmm, i wonder if i hit them again, i'll be turned into a man again, and lo and behold, he strikes them and he switches sex again! So anyway, jove brings tiresias up and asks him the question, and tiresias confirms that jove is indeed correct and women do have more pleasure in the bedroom. but juno is pissed off with this judgement so she decides to blind tiresias as punishment! the gods have a deal between themselves that they won't go over each other's actions, so jove is powerless. so he decides to reward tiresias with the gift of prophect, which ensures people are then forever asking him to tell the future.

so there you go, that's the story of tiresias.
 
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