version

Well-known member
Tropic of Capricorn, Miller

He can write, but for every great passage about staggering around New York or his father finding God there's several tedious pages of him describing genitals.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Tropic of Capricorn, Miller

He can write, but for every great passage about staggering around New York or his father finding God there's several tedious pages of him describing genitals.

Not read that, but I have read Tropic Of Cancer. I imagine it's much the same, only in Paris.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Sad to see Roth go today, although he was 85 and he was already retired. I've only read a few of his novels, and was never entirely satisfied by any of them, but he was unquestionably a brilliant writer, with enviable talents aplenty.
 

jenks

thread death
Roth is the writer that totally divides opinion between me and my wife - she loathes him with such a passion. furious with him and constantly slagging him off for writing about women whereas i do love him and have done for the better part of thirty years. i think the early stuff is funny and transgressive and aggressively political and the later stuff is someone really trying to pick apart America. so i suppose I know why people don't like him but I do.
 
I'm enjoying this so far, only a couple of chapters in but it's shaping up to take a deep dive into psychedelics and the research that's been done since 2006. Naturally, he felt obliged to go on a couple of trips himself.

images
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Definitely going to check out that psychedelics book, thanks.

Never really thought about Roth appealing to men more than women, perhaps because my mum is a huge fan of his.

What male writers write women well? (I'm sure one of the 100% male forum members can tell us lol)
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Jenks, which ones would you recommend?

I've read:

Portnoys Complaint
American Pastoral
The Human Stain
Everyman
Patrimony
 

jenks

thread death
Jenks, which ones would you recommend?

I've read:

Portnoys Complaint
American Pastoral
The Human Stain
Everyman
Patrimony

I think the four books that make up Zuckerman Unbound are all high quality.Built around a great premise which Roth really takes to the extreme - i think people forget that he is a comic novellist.

And the loose trilogy of The Counterlife, Deception and Operation Shylock are furious and compelling reading.
Our Gang skewers Nixon long before many others got there. Dealing with anti-semitism, Israel, middle age and relationships, infidelity.
But i think that late flowering from Sabbath is an amazing run of novels dealing with modern America - Communist is a forensic examination of marriage and The Plot Against America feels more prescient now than ever.
The last few slim volumes - Exit Ghost, Indignation, Everyman, Nemesis can be read in one sitting but still contain more spot on writing than most contemporary writers.
i think the one that pissed my wife off teh most was The Dying animal which she just say as huge male wish fulfillment - old bloke/young woman/big breasts...I know Sarah Churchwell really went to town on Roth on Front Row recently.
 

luka

Well-known member
Roth is the writer that totally divides opinion between me and my wife - she loathes him with such a passion. furious with him and constantly slagging him off for writing about women whereas i do love him and have done for the better part of thirty years. i think the early stuff is funny and transgressive and aggressively political and the later stuff is someone really trying to pick apart America. so i suppose I know why people don't like him but I do.

i like you jenks but you shouldnt be allowed to choose your own reading material. your taste is utterly irredeemable.

2. (Leary)The emotional-locomotion circuit (Wilson)The anal territorial circuit[18][19]

The emotional-territorial circuit is imprinted in the toddler stage. It is concerned with domination and submission, territoriality, etc.

The imprint on this circuit will trigger one of two states:

Dominant, aggressive behavior. This imprint creates an 'alpha' social attitude. Equivalent to the 'top dog' position in the model of Fritz Perls, to 'I'm OK' in the 'life positions' model of Transactional analysis, and to master morality in the model of Friedrich Nietzsche.[20]
Submissive, co-operative behavior. Equivalent to the 'bottom dog' position in the model of Fritz Perls, to 'I'm not OK' in the life positions model and to Nietzschean 'slave morality'.

This circuit is activated by depressant drugs such as alcohol, barbiturates, and benzodiazepines.[citation needed] This circuit appeared first in territorial vertebrate animals and is preserved across all mammals. It corresponds to the mammalian brain of triune brain theory. Robert Anton Wilson equated this circuit with the anal stage in the Freudian theory of psycho-sexual development. This circuit introduces a 2nd spatial dimension; up/down.[citation needed]

The first and second circuits both imprint in a binary fashion: trust/suspicion and dominance/submission.[21] Thus there are four possible ways of imprinting the first two circuits:

Trusting 1st circuit and dominant 2nd circuit. I'm OK; you're OK. Friendly strength in the Interpersonal Circumplex. Fire in the four elements model.[22] Choleric in the four humors model.[23]
Trusting 1st circuit and submissive 2nd circuit. I'm not OK; you're OK. Friendly weakness. Water in the four elements model. Phlegmatic humor.
Suspicious 1st circuit and dominant 2nd circuit. I'm OK; you're not OK. Unfriendly strength. Air in the four elements model. Sanguine humor.
Suspicious 1st circuit and submissive 2nd circuit. I'm not OK; you're not OK. Unfriendly weakness. Earth in the four elements model. Melancholic humor.
 

jenks

thread death
i like you jenks but you shouldnt be allowed to choose your own reading material. your taste is utterly irredeemable.

You may well be right, Luka but it's too late now.

Currently reading Pessoa - The Book of Disquiet which is like some odd dreamlike thing, all fragments and wispy observations.

just finished Zone by Enard which is just this single sentence howl at brutality and violence - war crimes and buried secrets - I think he's one of the best modern writers, alongside Drndic and Alexievich - Luka will tell me I'm wrong, obvs...
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Is it true to say that in the 19th century novel the central characters tended to be women but that this wasn't the case in the 20th century?
 

luka

Well-known member
i dont get you version. how could you have gotten self-conscious about
that well informed and cogently expressed post? why delete that?
 

version

Well-known member
i dont get you version. how could you have gotten self-conscious about
that well informed and cogently expressed post? why delete that?

I thought it was a bit clunky and editing something leaves that irritating note at the bottom which makes it look untidy.
 

luka

Well-known member
There's nothing wrong with deleting posts. There's nothing wrong with regret.

yeah but you do it in the morning after a massive piss up when youve spent all night sharing your sexual fantasies with us.. he does it 5 minutes after a nothing post about jane austen and mark twain!
 

version

Well-known member
yeah but you do it in the morning after a massive piss up when youve spent all night sharing your sexual fantasies with us.. he does it 5 minutes after a nothing post about jane austen and mark twain!

Chalk it up to OCD. It wasn't a particularly great post anyway, I was just saying that I imagine it appears that way because of a handful of highly regarded 19th century novels by Austen, the Brontes, Flaubert and Tolstoy.
 
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