nochexxx

harco pronting
Recently watched and loved 52 Pick Up -- can anyone recommend any more films like this?

cool watch. the film had a particular freakishness, especially the bad guys - great voices/accents, skewed phonetics sounding kinda wrong but cool to my foreign ears.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I know -- spectacular casting from start to finish, John Glover is a perfect sleezoid, Clarence Williams III is genuinely terrifying, even Vanity is well placed (Prince's then squeeze, I think...?), thrilling late appearence from Ann-Margaret, and I'll watch Schneider in anything. It is, simply, a ruthless, entertaining film.
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
@ grizzleb: la quatro volte sounds interesting, will have to check that out. I saw another film that reminded me of paradjanov, but that was more because it in some ways was the direct opposite: Raoul Ruiz' Time Regained, based on Proust. It's just almost as removed from the iconography of Paradjanov as can be, instead everything is just always changing, plastic, fluid. Very interesting. I wonder how much of it one would understand if one has never heard of Proust. I knew the fundamentals, and I was still completely lost at times.

And I just had a 48 hour train ride, so I watched a bunch of movies. Glauber Rochas Antonio das Mortes might be the film I can remember, which most corresponds to the books of the literary boom, we discussed in the book-thread some time ago. Magic, myth, religion, folktales, all mixed up in a recognizably modern world. And western inspiration, this time from westerns, which unfortunately are imitated rather badly. As in laughably poor. That was really funny...

Kalatozov's The Cranes are Flying was OK. Some good scenes, poor ending with boring tagged-on moral. Some of it might have inspired Tarkovsky's Ivan's Childhood, then again, they do kinda take place on the same front.

And speaking of Tarkovsky, The Sacrifice was rather poor and boring. Don't know if it was as boring as Stalker, will have to reflect on that some more, but I didn't really like it.

+ I watched Mizoguchi's Chikamatsu Monogatari and Kurosawa's Rashomon. They were fine, but not really that special. Rashomon is a fantastic premise, but I don't know if I think it was handed specially well.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"@ grizzleb: la quatro volte sounds interesting, will have to check that out. I saw another film that reminded me of paradjanov, but that was more because it in some ways was the direct opposite: Raoul Ruiz' Time Regained, based on Proust. It's just almost as removed from the iconography of Paradjanov as can be, instead everything is just always changing, plastic, fluid. Very interesting. I wonder how much of it one would understand if one has never heard of Proust. I knew the fundamentals, and I was still completely lost at times."
Seen a few Ra(o)ul Ruiz things but I wouldn't have compared him to Paradjanov - except in that they both make very beautiful and colourful films. Well, that's not always the case with Ruiz but I'm thinking of City of Pirates and Three Crowns of the Sailor or whatever it's called. Not seen the Proust one so can't comment. It's just an adaptation of one book isn't it?

"And I just had a 48 hour train ride, so I watched a bunch of movies. Glauber Rochas Antonio das Mortes might be the film I can remember, which most corresponds to the books of the literary boom, we discussed in the book-thread some time ago. Magic, myth, religion, folktales, all mixed up in a recognizably modern world. And western inspiration, this time from westerns, which unfortunately are imitated rather badly. As in laughably poor. That was really funny..."
I'd like to see that although I struggled a bit with Black God, White Devil if I'm honest.

"And speaking of Tarkovsky, The Sacrifice was rather poor and boring. Don't know if it was as boring as Stalker, will have to reflect on that some more, but I didn't really like it."
No way! I resisted watching The Sacrifice for a while cos I thought that the premise sounded either ridiculous or boring or maybe even both but when I watched it I was completely blown away (almost as much as by Stalker in fact) - it was instrumental in making me realise that great films (maybe great art) are often very hard to describe in a way that makes any sense. There is no worthwhile way to simplify it so you have to experience it. Well, assuming you do want to know what it's about obviously.

"+ I watched Mizoguchi's Chikamatsu Monogatari and Kurosawa's Rashomon. They were fine, but not really that special. Rashomon is a fantastic premise, but I don't know if I think it was handed specially well."
Blimey, you're quite a harsh critic aren't you? Well, actually I think I know where you're coming from on the Monogatari one really - it's got some good bits but overall it does feel a bit disjointed and random and because of that it gets wearing. I've never seen Rashomon but I get the impression that most people that have seem to rate it but still I can't argue with you. Have you seen Onibaba? I reckon it's got the creepiness that the best bits of Chikamatsu Monogatari have but is much better at sustaining that all the way through and is simply a much tighter and better film.
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
The thing is, most of these films are by directors, where I've kinda already picked out the films of theirs, that I most wanted to see. I really like The Mirror, Ivan's Childhood, Solaris, I really like Ugetsu Monogatari and Sansho the Bailiff, I'm on the fence about Kurosawa, quite frankly, but I've only seen Ran and Seven Samourai. I haven't seen Onibaba, either. Will have to. None of these films were bad - well, I didn't care much for Sacrifice - but they seemed like minor works.

With Ruiz, try and watch Hypothesis of a Stolen Painting. That one could have been pure Paradjanov, as it is mainly reenactments of weird paintings, but it's just so very different. Ruiz works with three dimensions, Ruiz works with fluctuating, everchanging images. It means that there will be fewer great screenshots, but it's really great in a different, diffuse way. I mainly compared them because they are so different. The Proust one is based on the final book, Time Regained, but it is full of flashbacks, so it sought of draws on all of them. Yes, he eats a cookie. And the crowd goes wild.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah, I've seen Hypothesis of a Stolen Painting - and read the book in fact which is really weird. I see what you mean about (anti)Paradjanov now with the tableaux and stuff. Very interesting film that.

"The thing is, most of these films are by directors, where I've kinda already picked out the films of theirs, that I most wanted to see. I really like The Mirror, Ivan's Childhood, Solaris, I really like Ugetsu Monogatari and Sansho the Bailiff, I'm on the fence about Kurosawa, quite frankly, but I've only seen Ran and Seven Samourai. I haven't seen Onibaba, either. Will have to. None of these films were bad - well, I didn't care much for Sacrifice - but they seemed like minor works."
I'm talking bollocks! I mixed up Ugetsu Monogatari with the other one which I in fact haven't seen. Sorry. So actually you like Ugetsu Monogatari more than me I guess - the roles have reversed.
Still sticking up for The Sacrifice though, I just found it really powerful and beautiful and when SPOILER he went mental and burnt the house down it was overwhelming. And I love that bit when the woman levitates - same as in Mirror in some ways. He made it with Bergman's crew in Sweden I believe and the way it looks must have been a huge influence on a lot of Scandinavian films since then that have that same kinda washed out look. I'm thinking Songs From The Second Floor or A Bothersome Man etc
 

stephenk

Well-known member
cool watch. the film had a particular freakishness, especially the bad guys - great voices/accents, skewed phonetics sounding kinda wrong but cool to my foreign ears.

this was great! second the request for similar films.

i'm not a foreigner but the accents sound off to me too, and i think they lend a lot to the sense of paranoia and accentuate the antagonists' villainy.
also <3 vanity
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
@ idlerich: Yeah, there are a lot of Japanese films called something-Monogatari. I think it means 'story'. That famous Ozu film is also originally titled Tokyo Monogatari. And it's a bit weird with Mizoghuchi. There are a lot of things that annoy me, the melodrama, the focus on sacrifice, especially for women, the role of women in general, but I keep wanting to see more.

I did not know Hypothesis... was based on a book. Will have to read that someday.

And with Sacrifice, the second half is much better than the first. But stuff such as Ottos monologue on Nietzche, basically anything Otto says and does, and the scene where Alexander flips through his book of Russian icons and goes 'Oh so pretty, Such faith' etc. I didn't like that. But yeah, the second half was much better.

Anothe Scandinavian director, with a huge debt to Tarkovsky, is Lars von Trier. Antichrist is dedicated to Tarkovsky, and his first few films was just steeped in Tarkovskyan imagery, and later on he has made his share of films where people are sacrificed... Actually, Sacrifice is really the plot of Breaking the Waves, isn't it? It's kinda fun, because it's tough to think of two directors, whose films impacts the audience in as different ways, as Tarkovsky and Trier. But Trier is a big fan.

This is von Trier's first short film, and it almost seems as if it's made to see how much they could rip off Tarkovsky...
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"@ idlerich: Yeah, there are a lot of Japanese films called something-Monogatari. I think it means 'story'. That famous Ozu film is also originally titled Tokyo Monogatari. And it's a bit weird with Mizoghuchi. There are a lot of things that annoy me, the melodrama, the focus on sacrifice, especially for women, the role of women in general, but I keep wanting to see more."
You're probably right - I think Ugetsu Monogatari means Stories of the Sun and Moon and I assumed that the monogatari bit was the moon bit but what you're saying makes more sense.

"And with Sacrifice, the second half is much better than the first. But stuff such as Ottos monologue on Nietzche, basically anything Otto says and does, and the scene where Alexander flips through his book of Russian icons and goes 'Oh so pretty, Such faith' etc. I didn't like that. But yeah, the second half was much better."
Well, I can see why one wouldn't like that - but for me Tarkovsky is one of the few clearly religious artists (or whatever) that I can stomach. Dunno why that should be but it is. But didn't you feel the huge impact of the declaration of nuclear war was extremely effective? Or was that just in the second half, I can't remember?

"I did not know Hypothesis... was based on a book. Will have to read that someday."
It's very loosely based on The Baphomet by Klossowski. Very loosely indeed.

Raul Ruiz's The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting is not so much a loose adaptation of Pierre Klossowski's novel The Baphomet so much as creatively inspired by it. The novel depicts the "breaths" of executed Knights Templar gathering every year on the anniversary of the execution of their Grand Master to commit the perverse sexual and "pagan" acts (it is conjectured that the word "Baphomet" was not a reference to the Egyptian god but a corruption of the name Muhammad) which they were tortured into falsely confessing. Ruiz's film details a series of six paintings through the camera POV of a narrator as The Collector (Jean Rougeul, Fellini's 8 1/2) suggests that a missing seventh painting holds the key to a scandal that caused the painter to flee the country after their exhibition. He suggests the other diverse paintings allude to the content of the missing one and attempts to divine the meaning from the paintings by recreating them three dimensionally with living subjects (a series of tableaux vivants featuring an early appearance by French superstar Jean Reno among them). Sacha Vierny's camera glides among the paintings and the live representations in a manner reminiscent of his coverage of similar tableaux vivants in Resnais' Last Year at Marienbad although Ruiz film has a narrator eager to extract meaning rather than obfuscate it).
In fact if I remember rightly it's only the story at the end in the film that really kind of relates to the book.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/hypothesis_of_the stolen_painting.htm

I've never seen Antichrist or Breaking the Waves (although I knew the first was dedicated to Tarkovsky) - will check that short film now cheers.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
OK, watched that. At first I couldn't really see what you meant, sure it's slow and a bit weird but it's small and close-up and fuzzy whereas Tarkovsky things are normally big and cinematic and clear - maybe it's what Tarkovsky would look like without infinite budget - but from about five minutes thirty in I saw what you were getting at; the slow blowing of the bits of paper, the camera floating up into the sky to look down at the woman's face, the flock of birds.
Cheers for that - I don't suppose you could easily summarise what they were saying and thus what it's about by any chance could you if it's relevant to understanding the film (you're Danish right?).
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
Yeah, I'm from Denmark, which is probably also why I just assume that everyone has seen every film by von Trier... I also think that that opening is pure The Mirror. A silent woman, and then something violent suddenly happening. Like the roof falling, or the bird flying by, in The Mirror. And they are basicly just discussing, that she is leaving for Buenos Aires at 6:10 in the morning, which is a problem as she thinks it will be too light. She likes the dark. There really isn't much more to it than that... It's a film-school film, so it was made on a miniscule budget.

I watched Ugetsu with a commentary track, and as far as I remember, U means 'rain' and Getsu means 'moon'. And putting them together means that they are somehow related. So it can mean 'Rain/Moon Story' or 'Tale of Rain on a Moonlit Night' or 'Tale of the Moon after the Rain'. Or a lot of things. As far as I remember, it is the name of the collection of tales, from which a few different stories is the foundation of the film. Hence the disjointedness, probably. The name doesn't really have that much to do with the film itself.

I think I just divided Sacrifice when they discover about the war. So all that will be in the second half. Which probably isn't true, time-wise. And speaking about it, it does seem better and better. The war was tackled wonderfully, really subtle. And Alexander's sacrifice was rather powerful. His films can be re-watched, definitely.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Yeah, I'm from Denmark, which is probably also why I just assume that everyone has seen every film by von Trier... I also think that that opening is pure The Mirror. A silent woman, and then something violent suddenly happening. Like the roof falling, or the bird flying by, in The Mirror. And they are basicly just discussing, that she is leaving for Buenos Aires at 6:10 in the morning, which is a problem as she thinks it will be too light. She likes the dark. There really isn't much more to it than that... It's a film-school film, so it was made on a miniscule budget."
Cheers for that, thought it was probably fairly irrelevant but that I had better check anyway in case I was missing the whole point of it. Yeah, fair points I think - Tarkovsky on a budget is it I guess.

"I watched Ugetsu with a commentary track, and as far as I remember, U means 'rain' and Getsu means 'moon'. And putting them together means that they are somehow related. So it can mean 'Rain/Moon Story' or 'Tale of Rain on a Moonlit Night' or 'Tale of the Moon after the Rain'. Or a lot of things. As far as I remember, it is the name of the collection of tales, from which a few different stories is the foundation of the film. Hence the disjointedness, probably. The name doesn't really have that much to do with the film itself.'
I'm sure that's the reason - same for things such as the Pasolini adaptations of Arabian Nights etc, the Has adaptation of The Saragossa Manuscript and loads of other things which I can't think of off the top of my head.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
Has has done an adaptation of 'The Saragossa Manuscript'? Nice, can't wait to check it. I absolutely love his version of 'The Hourglass Sanitorium', I struggle to think of a film that appeals to me aesthetically more. Got 'Saragossa Manuscript' in my reading pile too, will maybe move it up a few places.
 

nochexxx

harco pronting
Xtro! superb British horror film circa 1983, directed by Harry Bromley Davenport. will have to find out if he's done anything else that's just as decent and imaginative? blown away by the overall direction, casting (Bernice Stegers was class), animatronix, soundtrack (produced by the director lol) and stage FX. the attention to detail was really refreshing to see, especailly within the horror oeuvre, which i find more often than not to inane for my taste.

 

nochexxx

harco pronting
Rolling Thunder - written by Paul Schrader (Taxi Driver)

although i wasn't totally convinced by the lead actor there were so many great moments in this deathwish film.

 

gumdrops

Well-known member
potiche. i loved it. very very light but lovely and quite funny. some great pastiches but not joylessly or sneery, all very affectionate. read some reviews talking about the sharp political satire underneath, im not sure about all that, it was more just a satire of that era, and the tv/films from then, but what made it more than just a shallow pastiche was the family/work drama at the heart of it. it is quite topical though, and i found they seemed to bring in some modern concerns - localised vs outsourcing business for example - which was a nice touch. even the ending, which could have seemed outlandish in hollywoods hands, somehow seemed to work quite smoothly (apart from the last song perhaps). apparently there were a few barbs about personality led politics towards the end but im not sure i caught those (i watched it totally knackered). also i just like womens 70s hairdos (as worn by the daughter).
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
potiche. i loved it. very very light but lovely and quite funny. some great pastiches but not joylessly or sneery, all very affectionate. read some reviews talking about the sharp political satire underneath, im not sure about all that, it was more just a satire of that era, and the tv/films from then, but what made it more than just a shallow pastiche was the family/work drama at the heart of it. it is quite topical though, and i found they seemed to bring in modern concerns - localised vs outsourcing business for example - which was a nice touch. even the ending, which could have seemed outlandish in hollywoods hands, somehow seemed to work quite smoothly (apart from the last song perhaps). apparently there were a few barbs about personality led politics towards the end but im not sure i caught those (i watched it totally knackered). also i just like womens 70s hairdos (as worn by he daughter).

Yeah, I enjoyed it once I settled down to the fact it was like a giant spoof of 70s sitcoms, overacting 'n all. The political satire of the era was pretty straightforward - unions and bosses at loggerheads (dunno how true of France that was, but would certainly be the prevailing caricature of UK then), with Deneuve a proto-Blairite.

And how fucking massive is Depardieu these days?
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
ive watched a few old depardieu films lately. i think he might be one of my favourite actors!

i saw le mepris for the first time recently too. amazing film. one of the best relationship breakdown films imo. dont look now - although i thought some of the near silent chase scenes were a little too long - was also kind of spellbinding. plus the actress in there was pretty hot. again, great hair.

rolling thunder is on at the PCC in london in a few weeks for anyone interested.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
dont look now - although i thought some of the near silent chase scenes were a little too long - was also kind of spellbinding. plus the actress in there was pretty hot. again, great hair.

julie christie is indeed very hot, so hot that she inspired yo la tengo to write a song dedicated to her. her hair is disitnctly dodgy in that film though, very mumsy. i prefer her hair in darling.
 
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