blissblogger

Well-known member
Well, I suppose the idea of a "lost future" is inherently melancholy

But that's the larger frame for music-making that in its discrete instances had quite a wide spectrum of moods and vibes

If you take a group like Position Normal, or quite a lot of the Ghost Box stuff, or Moon Wiring Club, there's quite a bit of whimsy, or Anglo-Surrealist humor.

The Caretaker stuff is achingly sad, it's true.

Bittersweet is where a lot of the genre lives. Or muddy alloys of feelings that you can't quite put a finger on.
 

mind_philip

saw the light
But could there be a musical "lost future" without the prior existence of a "futuristic music"? Not disputing that there are a lot of possible inflections, but the cultural throughline mostly seems to be "the future seemed a lot brighter when I brought my first synth".
 

wild greens

Well-known member
I thought the point or idea of hauntology more that it is a continuous process as opposed to a specific genre? If anything you could argue that the stuff discussed above is more a pastiche of the idea than it is a specific proof of concept

The supposed revivals of jungle & garage in recent eras are as much an exhibit of supposed "London" creativity being haunted/trapped in it's past glories as they are examples of new flourishing scenes. There was a UK "top 40" recently where a quarter of the new tracks contained samples of old tunes

Even the most "progressive" London club music at the moment in terms of the afro/ama stuff is really just the ghost of funky bastardising south African stuff. In the short term Caltonic SA "Terminator" probably kicked it all off and that is already 4 years old, with not that many "new" ideas since. It is still good tho
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I thought the point or idea of hauntology more that it is a continuous process as opposed to a specific genre? If anything you could argue that the stuff discussed above is more a pastiche of the idea than it is a specific proof of concept

The supposed revivals of jungle & garage in recent eras are as much an exhibit of supposed "London" creativity being haunted/trapped in it's past glories as they are examples of new flourishing scenes. There was a UK "top 40" recently where a quarter of the new tracks contained samples of old tunes

Even the conversations about this are trapped in a loop. The discourse is haunting itself.
 

version

Well-known member
Even the conversations about this are trapped in a loop. The discourse is haunting itself.
james-woods-so-scared.gif
 

version

Well-known member
I thought the point or idea of hauntology more that it is a continuous process as opposed to a specific genre? If anything you could argue that the stuff discussed above is more a pastiche of the idea than it is a specific proof of concept

There doesn't seem to have ever been a settled definition, so you can bring what you want to it, really. Some people emphasise the 'lost futures' angle or political dimension, some the nostalgia/memory factor, others the ghostly aspect.

I'm sure it is a genre now as there'll be people who picked up on it and explicitly set out to make 'hauntological' music, but yeah, that's gonna be pastiche and is bound to be the least interesting development of the thing.

The supposed revivals of jungle & garage in recent eras are as much an exhibit of supposed "London" creativity being haunted/trapped in it's past glories as they are examples of new flourishing scenes. There was a UK "top 40" recently where a quarter of the new tracks contained samples of old tunes

Even the most "progressive" London club music at the moment in terms of the afro/ama stuff is really just the ghost of funky bastardising south African stuff. In the short term Caltonic SA "Terminator" probably kicked it all off and that is already 4 years old, with not that many "new" ideas since. It is still good tho

I like the idea of it being a process, but London recycling itself feels different. It's a haunting in a certain sense, but hearing a tune that samples an older tune doesn't feel 'hauntological' to me. I think you need a combination of mood, technique and the uncanny.

Burial and The Caretaker are the obvious examples, I suppose, but they feel such perfect examples they come off like pastiche themselves.

The first things that come to my mind are that Jandek album with the living room shot and, specifically re: the 'lost futures' thing, a couple of Krust tunes and that Digital one Burial was really into:




 

version

Well-known member
It's cool going back through the thread and seeing the thing being incubated across here and the blogs, people talking about specific updates from Mark, Simon and Woebot.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
The supposed revivals of jungle & garage in recent eras are as much an exhibit of supposed "London" creativity being haunted/trapped in it's past glories as they are examples of new flourishing scenes. There was a UK "top 40" recently where a quarter of the new tracks contained samples of old tunes

aunterlogikal ardkore is a thing, yes - and has been a thing for over 20 years actually.

The first ardkore replica-remake /time-travel exercise I know of was 1997, by this producer Jega - "Card Hore" - on Skam. Perhaps it's revisiting too-recent history to really feel haunted but definitely some wistfulness involved. This would have been around the time that the serious collector market for old skool hardcore had emerged, and back-to-91 and back-to-92 events were taking place


But this is a good this-week example - pirate radio hauntology, complete with cassette format retrofetishism

 

blissblogger

Well-known member
There doesn't seem to have ever been a settled definition, so you can bring what you want to it, really. Some people emphasise the 'lost futures' angle or political dimension, some the nostalgia/memory factor, others the ghostly aspect.

I'm sure it is a genre now as there'll be people who picked up on it and explicitly set out to make 'hauntological' music, but yeah, that's gonna be pastiche and is bound to be the least interesting development of the thing.

Why would there need to be a settled definition? It was a conversation about music, in the same way that punk was a discourse - a site for disagreement and feeling things out. (There were at least six different ideas of what punk was about and why it needed to come into existence. Same with most music movements - usually there isn't an agreed-upon manifesto, often there's really just a word around which competing definitions and desires organise themselves)

But yeah sonically and in terms of reference points, hauntology was a fairly settled and codified thing as early as... 2008 I should say.

The musicians carried on and carry on still, some of them - doing stuff within those parameters, coming up with enjoyable stuff quite often. But no, it's not surprising.

Mopping up operations continue - there's people laboring over PhDs at this very minute I'm sure, drawing the dots between Burial and Berardi.

Same as books and exhibition catalogues continue to surface about punk.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Seeing a clipped interview with Simon from DiY, complete with slightly too loud background music which is fuckin annoying because this is possibly the only formal interview undertaken, feels slightly uncanny if you ever met the bloke compounded by almost zero profile beyond a certain radius



As soon as reunions started, all reenactment society bs really, still loved Harry’s book. It’s only a matter of time before Ben Wheatley combines folk horror and having it under the stars on too many drugs
 
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