Never actually saw/did it but it seemed to chime with the accounts of David Rodinsky...soup said:
http://www.geog.qmul.ac.uk/staff/pdf/GhostlyFootsteps.pdf
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Hauntology
- Thread starter labrat
- Start date
http://www.geog.qmul.ac.uk/staff/pdf/GhostlyFootsteps.pdf
Hauntology Goes To The Movies:
Cache, Oldboy, With A Friend Like Harry
personal theory (if I'm on the right track here):
hauntology on record = reverie (set yourself adrift on that memory bliss)
hauntology on screen = bad things gon' happen to YOU (and you mostly deserve them)
Cache, Oldboy, With A Friend Like Harry
personal theory (if I'm on the right track here):
hauntology on record = reverie (set yourself adrift on that memory bliss)
hauntology on screen = bad things gon' happen to YOU (and you mostly deserve them)
i'd like to nominate the evp researchers
http://parc.web.fm/PARC CD3.htm
the dudes that hear the voices of the dead within the hiss of radio .
http://www.aaevp.com/
here are some clips
http://theshadowlands.net/ghostwav.htm
ghosts seem to be very vague in their messages- i guess it's the aural equivalent of the tv scree which topy discussed .
i'm also entering this jap horror from 2001
http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/kairo.shtml
japanese way ahead on internet hauntology
http://parc.web.fm/PARC CD3.htm
the dudes that hear the voices of the dead within the hiss of radio .
http://www.aaevp.com/
here are some clips
http://theshadowlands.net/ghostwav.htm
ghosts seem to be very vague in their messages- i guess it's the aural equivalent of the tv scree which topy discussed .
i'm also entering this jap horror from 2001
http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/kairo.shtml
japanese way ahead on internet hauntology
if we keep talking about "ghosts", we'll eventually get around to Alice Cooper...which is totally not where this discussion ought to be headed...confucius said:there has to be more of a precise definition. otherwise it just becomes anything about ghosts or memory. which is entirely too vague and largely meaningless.
but hey, speaking of "ghosts", I recall Gerald Simpson talking once about "ghosting", where he would sample a source, mutate it, embellish it, then delete the sample itself, leaving a "ghosted" sonic image...
confucius said:what about Toru Takemitsu? his music doesn't have any direct reference to ghosts but is all about haunting memories and shadows. if Fennez counts surely Takemitsu is the king.
takemitsu of course scored "Kaidan" which is perhaps the most accomplished asian ghost film this side of "Ugetsu."
about a definition, would specifications beyond the spectral uncanny affect (anamorphic distortion, etc) be doomed to seek a causal origin for the "deferred non-origin"? to fold hauntology into ontology? other than the criteria of temporal distance /memory (if even this) it seems hard to place any steady *what* which is in haunting return. it seems vague, as confucious notes, but perhaps appropriate? it makes me wonder if things are hauntological but nothing is hauntology as quintessence.
also i am reminded of this idea:
http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/psychoanalysis/definitions/betweenthetwodeaths.html
but if we're talking about objet a, we are talking about desire somewhere at least.
confucius said:there has to be more of a precise definition. otherwise it just becomes anything about ghosts or memory. which is entirely too vague and largely meaningless.
for what it's worth i agree - though it does seem to be generating quite a great list of recordings!
So Tough... by Saint Etienne has at least three tracks with a similar feel in texture and brevity to much Ghost Box or Position Normal, while the other more conventional songs end in blurred and chopped codas. Stop hurting me baby/I may lose my mind. Railway Jam is made up of tapes unreeling fuzzily, woozy backwards ambience and a sample from Peeping Tom. Avenue is like an echo laden and abstracted 60's Girl Group 7" played at 33 through an effects box. Innocence rubs up against experience; A Continuity Announcer sneers at heartbreak, and somebody in a damp alley remembers watching Lord Of The Flies. Something about this place/makes me lose my grip on/time and space...
Mike Powell
Revelatory
scissors said:it seems vague, as confucious notes, but perhaps appropriate? it makes me wonder if things are hauntological but nothing is hauntology as quintessence. .
I think this is precisely the challenge though, isn't it? I mean, it's good to have all these other records floating around - for example, blissblog's newest post isn't about hauntology so much as it is about ghosts as a kind of aesthetic-rhetorical device (an invocation, if you will!).
I think k-punk's comparison to the ambiguous/double root of "uncanny" (both at home and unfamiliar) is a perfect one; the hauntology thing seems especially difficult to pin down because its quintessence (to use scissors' terminology) is either a) in flux or b) necessarily intangible.
I think Basinski got mentioned somewhere, but it's part of why I think he's so salient in this discussion: at best, it's the sensation of following a loop from an aural "full bloodedness" into a kind of pale shell; it's not the process of something dying so much as it is something turning into a ghost. There and not there.
Raw Patrick
Well-known member
"there has to be more of a precise definition. otherwise it just becomes anything about ghosts or memory. which is entirely too vague and largely meaningless."
OK, to bring it back in a little...
I was thinking on the way to work this morning that one of the reasons for the Ghostbox/UK memoradelia sound is bcz the UK never had a real avant-garde/academic/contemporary classical scene that was both dealing with new technologies and was financially supported by the government/corporate finance. Instead of UK equivalents of IRCAM or Darmstadt we get the Radiophonic Workshop who are working with similar techniques but in the service of doing TV themes and incidental music. After leaving the Radiophoonic Workshop, their founder Daphne Oram makes Listen, Move and Dance, a seven inch designed for primary school kids to do free movement to. Other people with interest in tape techniques, like Basil Kirchin, end up on prog rock labels or doing horror film soundtracks. (Even people like Trevor Wishart who do work in universities have a daft space-age quality to their work that makes them closer to Joe Meek than Stockhausen.) That these people's work ended up in places where kids would have to hear it (schools science programmes etc.) or would actively seek it out (horror flicks) means that the UK has a weird, queasy relationship to this type of sound that is profitable to work with.
(Hey Mike Powell! Good to see someone else Stylus on Dissensus.)
OK, to bring it back in a little...
I was thinking on the way to work this morning that one of the reasons for the Ghostbox/UK memoradelia sound is bcz the UK never had a real avant-garde/academic/contemporary classical scene that was both dealing with new technologies and was financially supported by the government/corporate finance. Instead of UK equivalents of IRCAM or Darmstadt we get the Radiophonic Workshop who are working with similar techniques but in the service of doing TV themes and incidental music. After leaving the Radiophoonic Workshop, their founder Daphne Oram makes Listen, Move and Dance, a seven inch designed for primary school kids to do free movement to. Other people with interest in tape techniques, like Basil Kirchin, end up on prog rock labels or doing horror film soundtracks. (Even people like Trevor Wishart who do work in universities have a daft space-age quality to their work that makes them closer to Joe Meek than Stockhausen.) That these people's work ended up in places where kids would have to hear it (schools science programmes etc.) or would actively seek it out (horror flicks) means that the UK has a weird, queasy relationship to this type of sound that is profitable to work with.
(Hey Mike Powell! Good to see someone else Stylus on Dissensus.)
http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/films/testfilms.aspx
http://www.buyoutfootage.com/pages/titles/pd_dc_043.html
At the NTS, entire cities or "doomtowns," including houses containing furniture, appliances, food, and mannequins representing people, were built. Utility stations and automobiles were also located in the town. The houses were constructed with various exteriors. Inside each house was an array of instruments to gather the pertinent data on blast, heat and radiation effects. The majority of the houses were destroyed by the blasts. Industrial-type buildings and transportation structures, such as railways, bridges and freeways were also subjected to nuclear blasts.
The video shows military troops participating in Camp Desert Rock Exercises and witnessing the power and fury of an atomic blast. The underlying message given is that if citizens remain calm and "face it," they can survive the bomb.'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...11729/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/026-6221021-0618017
also bye bye butterfly - pauline oliveros buries an echoey sample of madame butterfly in sine waves
hymnenby stockhausen, it's optimism is of another time, now there are national anthems for countries that have long since finished buried in it's tapestry so it's taken on new haunting meaning.
http://www.buyoutfootage.com/pages/titles/pd_dc_043.html
At the NTS, entire cities or "doomtowns," including houses containing furniture, appliances, food, and mannequins representing people, were built. Utility stations and automobiles were also located in the town. The houses were constructed with various exteriors. Inside each house was an array of instruments to gather the pertinent data on blast, heat and radiation effects. The majority of the houses were destroyed by the blasts. Industrial-type buildings and transportation structures, such as railways, bridges and freeways were also subjected to nuclear blasts.
The video shows military troops participating in Camp Desert Rock Exercises and witnessing the power and fury of an atomic blast. The underlying message given is that if citizens remain calm and "face it," they can survive the bomb.'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...11729/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/026-6221021-0618017
also bye bye butterfly - pauline oliveros buries an echoey sample of madame butterfly in sine waves
hymnenby stockhausen, it's optimism is of another time, now there are national anthems for countries that have long since finished buried in it's tapestry so it's taken on new haunting meaning.
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a track by Jah Wobble called 'A 13' that is both psychogeographic and hauntological said:Aw, we used to love that track (and album) back in the day. Also had a track called "Good Ghosts" which was particularly good.
Mike Powell said:it's the sensation of following a loop from an aural "full bloodedness" into a kind of pale shell; it's not the process of something dying so much as it is something turning into a ghost. There and not there.
in this vein, Stephen Matheiu's Wurmloch Variations fits perfectly... gorgeous tones slowly peeling away at the edges, becoming covered in mossy detritous... eventually vanishing like a dying shortwave radio signal buried in a massive blizzard of static... and all that's left is snow.
PeteUM said:a track by Jah Wobble called 'A 13' QUOTE said:Aw, we used to love that track (and album) back in the day.
yeah that was the first time I heard Natasha Atlas... funny we were on 2 different sides of the globe listening to the same thing back in... 1989?
Sounds about right. Saw Invaders Of The Heart live roundabout then, but only very sketchy memories remain...
Then my mate bought Rising Above Bedlam and played it to death and I lost interest in Wobble. I found myself in a charity shop the other day staring at a recent CD of his priced at two pounds thinking "hmmm..."
Then my mate bought Rising Above Bedlam and played it to death and I lost interest in Wobble. I found myself in a charity shop the other day staring at a recent CD of his priced at two pounds thinking "hmmm..."
reflecting and distorting a past that may never have been there in the first place. Bringing to life odd recollections of something that was old only in our minds, but also somehow tapping into deeper connections and form...
like this definition. by this token lots of good-period RZA is sehr hauntological- all those grainy vocal samples from soul records with all the flesh flayed off them, a memory of something vitalist and optimistic gone horribly awry, iced over- stuff like-
Ghostface Killah- Camay
Raekwon-Glaciers of Ice
pretty much all of GZA's 'liquid Swords'
also Eduard Artemyev's music to Stalker and Solaris is key here
like this definition. by this token lots of good-period RZA is sehr hauntological- all those grainy vocal samples from soul records with all the flesh flayed off them, a memory of something vitalist and optimistic gone horribly awry, iced over- stuff like-
Ghostface Killah- Camay
Raekwon-Glaciers of Ice
pretty much all of GZA's 'liquid Swords'
also Eduard Artemyev's music to Stalker and Solaris is key here
oneirophren
Designated Sleeper
obvious choice not mentioned yet (perhaps I blinked):
The Third Eye Foundation Ghost
and (not as strong but still valid)
Piano Magic "Theory of Ghosts" from Disaffected
The Third Eye Foundation Ghost
and (not as strong but still valid)
Piano Magic "Theory of Ghosts" from Disaffected
What about some of the Zoviet France stuff - thinking of some of 'Shouting at the Ground', all of 'Decriminalisation of Country Music' and 'Eostre' and I'm sure there are more...
Also 'The Monstrous Soul' by Lustmord - built around samples from 'Night of the Demon'... does that count?
I may have got this all wrong though...
Also 'The Monstrous Soul' by Lustmord - built around samples from 'Night of the Demon'... does that count?
I may have got this all wrong though...
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i'm not sure if i'm following some of the more theoretical ideas here,but the thread made me think of
invisible cities by harold budd
jan jelenik-loop finding jazz and the new one
agreed on the rza idea,some of the old stuff where it sounds off key and disorienting-that "its raining..." track off only build for cuban lynx
also third eye foundation-little lost soul
invisible cities by harold budd
jan jelenik-loop finding jazz and the new one
agreed on the rza idea,some of the old stuff where it sounds off key and disorienting-that "its raining..." track off only build for cuban lynx
also third eye foundation-little lost soul