K-Punk on Weed!!

droid said:

Thats a myth.

Weeds diversity alone makes a mockery of Marks argument IMO - you can get the super heavy 'hash' coma effect from a pure indica strain like 'chocolate chunk', or an insane tripping buzz of a mainly Sativa like 'Kush' or 'Jack Herrer' - totally different effects - like 2 different drugs in fact!

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Hash is far from super heavy coma effect. I had hash recently for the first time in 15 years, and it was a *TERRIFIC*. Came on strong, tapered off nicely, and I was nice and mellow, no paranoia at all. And I felt completely fine the next morning. It was WAY milder than yr average skunk that bludgeons you, wears of, and then you want more in an addictive cycle, to the point you get a headache.

Buick6 said:

Hash is far from super heavy coma effect. I had hash recently for the first time in 15 years, and it was a *TERRIFIC*. Came on strong, tapered off nicely, and I was nice and mellow, no paranoia at all. And I felt completely fine the next morning. It was WAY milder than yr average skunk that bludgeons you, wears of, and then you want more in an addictive cycle, to the point you get a headache.

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Again, depends on the hash and the plant it came from and how it was processed. Polum? Kif? Soapbar? Squidqie? Black? Blonde? Bubble? Ice? Hand bonded?

Point is cannabis is a drug which can have wildly opposing effects depending on what kind you consume - or even how you ingest it...

Buick6 said:

Hash is far from super heavy coma effect. I had hash recently for the first time in 15 years, and it was a *TERRIFIC*. Came on strong, tapered off nicely, and I was nice and mellow, no paranoia at all. And I felt completely fine the next morning. It was WAY milder than yr average skunk that bludgeons you, wears of, and then you want more in an addictive cycle, to the point you get a headache.

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Placebo.

And like droid says, "has" is far to broad a category. There is some evidence that THC/CBD ratios produces different subjective effects, and in your "typical" hash, the ratio is going to be different to a "typical" skunk.

But all this "skunk is evil and addictive" is pure bollocks - it's drug war propaganda, plain and simple. There's absolutely no scientific evidence to back it up, and if you look at the people delivering this message, they are always government/anti-drug crusaders. green smack? please, that's straight out of the Daily Mail...

I'm intrigued by the fact that this discussion is in the "Thought" section...

Padraig nails it with Psychedelic Fascism.

And others for the way in which nowadays skunk basically = the cheapest way to get as fucked as possible in the shortest amount of time. Its completely nihilistic and utterly boring and pointless... But there's almost nothing psychedelic in that, its about as psychedelic as crushing a brick into yr head...

tho I remember sensi fondly...

The paranoia effects of weed are almost its most interesting area, that sense of total objectivity, where you are watching the scene about you as if it were a film you are analysing, replaying each agonising moment of cliche, each mind-numbing thing said, every banality of the moment magnified.

gek-opel said:

Padraig nails it with Psychedelic Fascism.

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Care to unpack it for the rest of us mortals?

No offence Padraig but the following is particularly opaque:


I'm guessing that's short-hand for more complex concepts..?

D84 said:

Care to unpack it for the rest of us mortals?

No offence Padraig but the following is particularly opaque:

I share Mark's position on drugydum as "psychedelic fascism" [Kubrick], as fundamental to abstract pomo Kapitalism's condition of workable possibility​

I'm guessing that's short-hand for more complex concepts..?

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i sometimes wonder whether some users here are really AI crit theory bots pumping out automated gibberish that no-one dares question just in case everyone thinks they are stupid.

luka said:

its not good to be lean the whole time.

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everything in moderation. including moderation.

I took it to mean that it was a necessary functional element of capitalism, (as a system by which revolutionary counter-hegemonic energies could be nullified) but the stuff about linking it to post 60s babyboomer/hippie takeover (ie- Gates/Blair) muddies the waters a little- perhaps that bit is a demonstration that those associated with drug-fueled counterculture (tho very, very loosely) are now the leaders and chief architects of late capital. But I think that their links to psychedelics themselves are pretty damn tenuous.

very late to this thread... but I started smoking weed early in life if that makes up for it

don't know if someone else already covered this but when I smoked heavily for about 10 years, the Buddha was anything but sedative for me - I would literally bounce off of the walls with creative energy when stoned - I became obsessive with making stuff, drawings, paintings, graphics, mixtapes, anything visual or aural. the thought of spacing out in front of the TV is absolutely horrifying! (atleast before the crash, which would come hours and hours later. but I always preferred to work until I collapse into a deep sleep anyway).

I would actually plan out all the projects I wanted to do before smoking, like get the paints ready, make a list of records I want to use, etc., to make the most of the precious, precious high time.

and ofcourse it made sex and dancing and all that very good too but it was mainly a geek-out in the studio thing for me. really miss the feeling sometimes... (getting misty eyed)

I think it's interesting to see the different reactions it causes. Some people have that couch consignment and others tend to buzz. I'm of the latter category, and this is why I have a somewhat ambivalent relation to the stuff, because when I smoke these days then it means no sleep for fucking hours. I get creative, though, and generally it's quite productive. I love to read when very stoned and I was monged out of my fucking mind when writing the bulk of my work for university last year. Mania, my friends, is your friend: there's nothing like a perceived increase in ability when it comes to sustaining the motivation to keep working. Just make sure you revise when straight. Or drunk, at the very least.

oooo I could never read while stoned... words mean nothing to me in that state... but colors, shapes and sounds take on new dimensions. same here, if I smoke after dinner it's no sleep until 3 AM. damn all this talk is making me...

D84 said:

... If you want to preach about the evils of weed or whatever, fine - sure they exist: like many other things in life there are pitfalls - but try it first. Smoke a reefer, take a trip or pill or whatever and then come back and tell us whether you feel more comfortable about capitalism, or you find the supermarkets or advertising more seductive.

I've written what I think will be your answer on the back of a postage stamp and sealed it in an envelope to be opened when you report back.

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Your patronising innocence and strawman construction here is indeed charming. Drug culture [the capitalist world's largest industry] , both the official pharmaceutical one and the dissident narcissistic disavowing one - is capitalism at its destructive purest. Supermarkets and advertising not bad enough for you, not sufficiently seductive?

Envelope is Postage Pre-paid :

absolutely spot-on, Padraig...drugs are the (not-so-new) slavery...and many of the people who were smoking blunts in the 60s and talking about liberation now work for the CIA and the FDA, and the cops, etc....

thing is, though, that the reason drugs are such a HUGE international market is that PEOPLE LIKE TO GET HIGH (probably almost as much as they like to eat)

given that, using the generic phrase "drugs" to describe and talk about ALL drugs is far too simplistic


while agreeing with you, i also have to say that im far more friendly towards pot use than, let's say, crack/cocaine use....buying/using pot is probably about as ethically problematic (even for anti-capitalists) as buying a hamburger/car/house/television


none of these things are all that cool when really analyzed (opened up my wallet and saw all the blood, etc...), bu they are things that people do every day and almost HAVE to do everyday

im an anti-capitalist and hate the world of work and money...but i go to work every single day of my life...and while most of my money goes towards such decadent luxuries as rent, food, etc., the fact of the matter is that i like a lil money in my pocket....id RATHER live in a society with NO MONEY, though (godless commie that iam)

but it's ALL a matter of degrees, too...and we are all freaking trapped in this nut-house with no seeming way out

so, if someone wants to smoke a lil weed, well......shrugz...who cares?...so they shoved an extra ten-dollars in the pocket of the man? wow

now, crack/cocaine?....well, do that too, if it makes your day...but if you want to talk about slavery, THAT might be a far more rewarding path to criticize from the perspective of an anti-capitalist

As far as the people talking about the effect they get from weed, it's worth noting that after a certain period of heavy use (I'd say a year or two of smoking every day would do it) the effect of the drug basically flips. While it earlier made you feel sleepy, lethargic, laughing at nothing, etc it can now make you feel alert, hyperactive, inspired and more 'awake' than when you are not stoned.
All of you who complain of not being able to sleep, this is a clear indicator of this change, I've got it too which is why I've looked into it. The problem with this is that your system has adjusted to having these chemicals in your system so that when you are not smoking you are experiencing depressed functioning, which can seriously enforce the addiction cycle, making you want to smoke in the morning, etc. I have been smoking heavily (every day) for more than five years now and I feel this process very acutely. I do still enjoy smoking and do enjoy the 'charged' feeling I get after my first smoke of the day (diminishing returns after that) but am not a 'weed optimist' I don't think that any drug is worth attributing things like creativity, artistic development, etc to it. I know I'll hear from some of the E, LSD and Herb evangelists on here about this but I think that the drugs are usually incidental and most good work happens in spite rather than because of them. I certainly wouldn't say that smoking herb enhances my creativity, it FEELS like it does and will get me enthusiastic about working and I'll feel that what I've done is amazing but the morning after re-appraisal often holds nasty surprises, I'd say about 50 percent of the time. Usually in the first hour or two after the first smoke of the day I get very active, inspired etc but this is inevitably followed by the long slow tapering off into stupor, compulsive eating, TV watching etc. Smoking more helps, but with definite diminishing returns. I've found often that I'll get that brilliant rush, start something and then watch it degenerate into rubbish as my buzz wears off and I no longer feel excited about it.

As far as K-Punk's article I think there are some truths in there but criticizing weed without ever having smoked is like criticizing a book you've only heard about from others, basically weak. If he wanted to make an informed critique that people who smoke would take seriously he would have to engage with his subject and try smoking Otherwise he's basically preaching to the converted and will certainly not reach people like me. I do feel that a critical discussion about herb is important though, too often people adopt the 'it's a harmless herb from the earth' attitude which I think is idiotic. Weed is a drug like any other and depending on your approach to using it can also be very damaging to life, health, sanity etc. Regarding the rasta approach to smoking, talk to a few people who live that lifestyle and you will learn that theirs is not always an uncritical attitude either, many, especially older people have health problems related to smoking but feel addicted and unable to stop. Lee Perry is also known to have taken breaks of several months from smoking because he worried about it's effect on his creativity.

The only drug I can reccomend without qualification is COFFEE! Sizzling mud of life, I don't know where I would be without you. Talk about a drug that enhances creativity, I've made way more good music on coffee than I have when smoking.

Padraig said:

Drug culture [the capitalist world's largest industry] , both the official pharmaceutical one and the dissident narcissistic disavowing one - is capitalism at its destructive purest.

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well sure, this is the point Hubert Selby Jr. made with Requiem For a Dream, a portrayal of the parallel self deception and descent into destruction of mother and son.

but while capitalism may want us to be asleep, unaware, and addicted, with no autonomy of thought or action, at the same time it wants us to be productive, to unwaveringly conform and participate in the official culture, and most of all whole-heartedly believe in the dominant ideology and take all of its illusions for granted.

reefer smoking can be a serious impediment to the bold and italicised portion of the above. and IMHO it is part of the reasons why it has been a corner stone of the anti-establishment "scene" (however problematic it is), and why it is still illegal (with alcohol being the preferred and sanctioned vice).

drugs can be used toward either end - zombify or awaken to new ways of perceiving reality -depends on the user and how it is used.

Padraig said:

Your patronising innocence and strawman construction here is indeed charming.
Drug culture [the capitalist world's largest industry] , both the official pharmaceutical one and the dissident narcissistic disavowing one - is capitalism at its destructive purest.

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OK I'll drop the patronising innocence if you drop the hyperbole.

Capitalism and the corporate structure work towards monopolies. The most lucrative ones are those for goods everyone wants: food, clothing, transport etc. Cottage industries aren't that interesting to Capital. I also believe that some drugs are probably illegal because that way the industry is tax free...

I don't think the Opium Wars killed nearly as many people as the Petrol Wars.

Are you willing to give up your car habit?


(Or, like me, can you only afford public transport?)

Look around. Nothing has changed the face of this planet - and the air - for the worse more than the automobile and petroleum cartels.

Can you say the same about marijuana?

It's a strange kind of metonymy where the goods are blamed for the evils of the system.

Padraig said:

Supermarkets and advertising not bad enough for you, not sufficiently seductive?

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I think you misunderstood what I was trying to imply, namely that smoking weed will *not* make you find supermarkets, shopping centres and advertising seductive at all...

The postage stamp remark was my fancy-pants way of saying that I think your answer would be "no": the letters N O fit nicely on the back of a stamp...

I'm not an optimistic smoker either and try to vary my smoking habits as much as possible. But yeah it is addictive (esp. the tobacco!). On the other hand, I find it impossible to enjoy if I have too many commitments, too much work and too much stress - like any other pastime.

The effect for varies greatly depending on variety, and frequency of use - the effect is sharper after a good break and then yeah diminshing returns until bleah and another break...

Its not that drug use (either medicinal or recreational) is innately bad. Hell, you could probably get away with shooting smack once a year, with no ill effects... however...

The current context in which they exist (both legal and illegal) is a vital cog in the machinery of capital. The culture in illegal drug consumption is a grotesque parody of consumerism, with its hideous braggadocio, "won't get fooled again" ironic distancing and self delusional denial, vast international networks leading to the exploitation of the third world.... so D84 when he says "It's a strange kind of metonymy where the goods are blamed for the evils of the system" is correct, however the system (capitalism) has deliberately or inadvertently created cultures which are destructive and abusive on many levels, surrounding these products. SO while they are not themselves to blame, it is difficult to engage with them on a different level (outside of the cultures surrounding them).

In other societies recreational drugs were used in spiritual ritualistic contexts, rather than the all-consuming context of consumer-capitalism. This approach would make more sense. The difficulty is engaging with these products in a way which is not distorted by the underlying thought processes between consumerist-subject and consumable-object under late capitalism.

gek opel said:

The current context in which they exist (both legal and illegal) is a vital cog in the machinery of capital. The culture in illegal drug consumption is a grotesque parody of consumerism, with its hideous braggadocio, "won't get fooled again" ironic distancing and self delusional denial, vast international networks leading to the exploitation of the third world....

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Roll on legalization so we can buy Fair Trade weed in Oxfam shops, then. Or can you smoke without helping out the International Kapitalist Konspiracy if you grow your own?

SIZZLE said:

The only drug I can reccomend without qualification is COFFEE! Sizzling mud of life, I don't know where I would be without you. Talk about a drug that enhances creativity, I've made way more good music on coffee than I have when smoking.

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As far as I'm concerned, for appreciating out-there music nothing beats the relaxed but alert vibe you get from a nice cup of tea

I was previously sold on coffee as the uber creative drug (well that and Amphetamine, but coffee slightly less harsh on the old system...) but even coffee taken to extremes can lead to problems... I think one of Kraftwerk had a coffee-induced heart attack...!