eBay "sniping"

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
In terms of ebay banning people I can see no reason why they would want to - the money is still rolling in...

actually, i misinformed you earlier - its only ebay germany that bans snipers for some strange reason. and even then, germans can snipe other ebay sites, just not the german one!
 

Canada J Soup

Monkey Man
I've pretty much stopped using eBay because of sniping. If there isn't a (reasonable) buy it now price I don't bother anymore, because I know the chances are there's some little fucker out there who is (I have managed to convince myself) getting almost as much of a thrill out of buying the item I want for only a dollar more as he is from actually getting the item. In fact, he probably doesn't even really want it as much as I do. The prick. I’ll bet he doesn’t even really like Spiral Tribe.

Droid's right though. If you want a greater chance of winning an auction at the lowest final price you can get away with, sniping is the way to go simply because it provides an advantage that others will take if you won't. It’s surprising that eBay hasn't enacted measures to prevent it, as it reduces the number of people who are likely to participate in auctions just by dint of pissing them off.
 

DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
Domtyler, why are you getting so worked up over this?

You got outbid, since you carefully considered your maximum then you wouldn't want to pay what the item sold for anyway. There will always be another trumpet for sale. I win stuff on eBay all the time and when I get outbid I just accept the fact since I wouldn't pay that much anyway.

Paying in the last minutes is the correct course of action because people aren't rational all the time and can't always decide on a good maximum. This especially applies to lots. Often lots go for very cheap on a per item basis and on careful consideration your maximum may turn out to be much larger than what you originally thought acceptable. Since I dont' want to allow other this chance to change their mind, I bid late.
 

DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
How would you prevent sniping? Cut off biding in the last minute? Then people will just bid a few second before the minute cut-off arrives. There's really no way to stop and it's for the better. eBay is not a store, if you can't take the uncertainty then don't bid. Though I gotta admit sometimes my pulse races way too much near the end of an auction. It's kinda scary.
 

DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
I think eBay is a buyers market. Stuff goes a lot cheaper on eBay then anywhere else and unless you are selling something very rare and much in demand that will guarantee bids I would use some other way to sell records (gemm, discogs).
 
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droid

Guest
Id like to make a distinction here between automated sniping (as you m ake a cup of tea/lie in bed/watch telly), and manual sniping (logging on and bidding manually at the last possible second).

The latter is OK in my book - theres always a chance youll fuck it up or miss the auction or something... the former is a bit too impersonal and mean-spirited for my tastes.

I can see things heading that way though... :(
 

DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
Don't see a problem with automated sniping either. What if you set the maximum to $5 and I just go on there an manually bid $6? Then you lose. You will say, well I will set the maximum to $7 then. Ok, fine, I wasn't going to pay $7 anyway and maybe you are the sucker after all. Don't forget that if the maximum bid is the same then the one placed earlier wins.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
droid said:
Id like to make a distinction here between automated sniping (as you m ake a cup of tea/lie in bed/watch telly), and manual sniping (logging on and bidding manually at the last possible second).

Whilst I have been instilled with the protestant work ethic and value a bit of graft and attention to detail, I think you are talking bollocks here. :D

What difference does it make?
 

bassnation

the abyss
john eden said:
Whilst I have been instilled with the protestant work ethic and value a bit of graft and attention to detail, I think you are talking bollocks here. :D

What difference does it make?

doesn't it remove the "magic" when you just repeatedely win every auction without even trying? ;)
 
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droid

Guest
john eden said:
Whilst I have been instilled with the protestant work ethic and value a bit of graft and attention to detail, I think you are talking bollocks here. :D

What difference does it make?

Talking bollocks! How dare you! :D

The difference is purely subjective, its like using a 'fire and forget' missile to crush your enemies as opposed to getting in close with your bayonet (or sniper rifle!) and seeing the whites of their eyes before you dispatch them !

I guess Im just old fashioned...
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Doesn't it remove the "magic" when you just repeatedly win every auction without even trying?"

I don't get that at all, you will only win when you are prepared to pay more than anybody else (who happens to see it that is, does getting automatic notification count as cheating as well?). As far as I can work out the Sniper thing just allows you to "hide" your maximum bid from ebay up to the last minute as well as from the other buyers. I wish there was a way that I could win the things I keep losing on "without even trying".
 

john eden

male pale and stale
droid said:
Talking bollocks! How dare you! :D

The difference is purely subjective, its like using a 'fire and forget' missile to crush your enemies as opposed to getting in close with your bayonet (or sniper rifle!) and seeing the whites of their eyes before you dispatch them !

:p

Oh I see!

For you ebay is akin to mortal combat, or perhaps a joust? A duel for the honour of the virgin vinyl you have your eye on? But, ah, curse these dastardly snipers! Why do good women always go for bad men?

Whereas, for me, it's just about acquiring records etc in a relatively straightforward manner. ;)
 
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droid

Guest
john eden said:
:p

Oh I see!

For you ebay is akin to mortal combat, or perhaps a joust? A duel for the honour of the virgin vinyl

And just imagine my disappointment when my precious virgins often turn out to be soiled goods! :cool:
 
ebay is one of the least honourable inventions of the 20th century, tho it does allow privileged access to some of the more subjective affects of capitalism and all the multivarious moods of selfishness, acquisitiveness and gambling are permitted to shine through in their rotten glory...

I spent far, far too much money and time on ebay last year, often putting my bid in at the very last minute/second (tho not with a sniper programme)....as you are so obviously encouraged to do this by the set-up of the whole enterprise. It does make you feel both excited and malevolent at the same time to just outbid some total stranger and spend far more than you would have wanted to. It's partly a form of gambling, obv....er, and just occasionally you might get something you want for less than you would have paid in a shop or whatever.

But then I got banned from ebay...forever! I suspect they thought I was using a sniper programme cos I was pretty good at winning at the last minute, either that or they assumed I was a National Bolshevik for buying both 'Triumph of the Will' and Soviet badges in the same week. But probably for the best, eh....
 

domtyler

Teasmaid
DigitalDjigit said:
Domtyler, why are you getting so worked up over this?

You got outbid, since you carefully considered your maximum then you wouldn't want to pay what the item sold for anyway. There will always be another trumpet for sale. I win stuff on eBay all the time and when I get outbid I just accept the fact since I wouldn't pay that much anyway.

Paying in the last minutes is the correct course of action because people aren't rational all the time and can't always decide on a good maximum. This especially applies to lots. Often lots go for very cheap on a per item basis and on careful consideration your maximum may turn out to be much larger than what you originally thought acceptable. Since I dont' want to allow other this chance to change their mind, I bid late.

Apart from the sour grapes I guess I'm worked up over it because I have a suspicion that the last minute bid, whether sniped or not, is more likely to be motivated by a desire to WIN the item rather than a considered decision to offer a certain amount. And now that I've written than down I see how absurd it is because that's why auctions work. It's so easy to get carried away with the drama, even the language is dramatic, you don't buy, you WIN!!! People often spend more at auctions because the action of bidding becomes adversarial.

Perhaps my ire is because it just seems a little unfair to jump in at the last minute, I'd feel mean doing it, it just seems grabby....

BTW: Are you suggesting it's the correct course of action because people aren't rational because they take what you consider to be the correct course of action? Kant would have a field day with that!
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
The magic of ebay isn't the last minute manual bidding, it's the valuation. You have to make a judgement on the value of this thing (and the probity of the seller) based on a photo and a bit of blurb and have to compete with a bunch of unseen people for it. All of that is still present when you use a sniping programme.

And you can still lose with a sniping programme. You can still get outbid.

I use AuctionSniper and it's excellent. I bought a load of stuff on ebay last year using it. I was trying to get these (very good but inexpensive B&W 601 speakers) which were really in demand and kept getting outbid at the last moment.

It works really well and costs pennies.
 

Freakaholic

not just an addiction
Ive never used a sniping program myself, but have bought a lot on ebay. Before I purchase anything (mostly records) i will watch that item run through several times, unless its rare and i dont expect to see it again.

but ive found that something that usually goes for, say $10, one or two will regularly slip through at $5. You just gotta be patient.

a vast majority of my bids get sniped at the last minute, like at least 9 out of 10. and its hard to pick your max price. if i said i wouldnt go above $20 for that, and then it ended $20.50, I cant help but think "whats another 50 cents, damn i shouldve bid a little more".

i did by a rather large bag end soundsystem, and only one by having a faster refresh time. that was invigorating.
 

johanek

Member
I've sniped successfully several times before, and I think it's the best tactic for getting something cheap. Which is why I'm on ebay in the first place...

So my thing is to set a lowish limit I'm prepared to pay on an item I want to buy. And I snipe using software at that level. I tend not to win very much because the item goes over my limit before the last minute or because someone outsnipes me. But then I'll try again on the next similar item and if you remain patient you can often buy the item cheap, or at least raise the amount you're willing to pay more slowly, over several auctionss.

It becomes more like a blind bid- everyone gets one shot and doesn't know what anyone else is bidding. But you gotta know thats the game you're playing, if you think of it like a regular auction there's the potential to pay too much, just like at a regular auction.


Anyway, in New Zealand ebay isn't popular and they use a local site called trademe instead. What trademe does to prevent sniping, which I think is rather smart, is give the seller the option to extend the auction if a bid is made in the last 5 minutes. You select this option when you advertise your item, and the auction automatically extends to finish 5 minutes after that bid. This is the way to defeat sniping and change the system back to people bidding "in person" rather than robots doing the job. I really don't know why ebay doesn't offer it- surely since it aids the seller it would increase the fees they recieve?
 

3underscore

Well-known member
johanek said:
It becomes more like a blind bid- everyone gets one shot and doesn't know what anyone else is bidding. But you gotta know thats the game you're playing, if you think of it like a regular auction there's the potential to pay too much, just like at a regular auction.

Yes - with sniping it gravitates more towards a second price, sealed bid auction (the winner, in effect, pays the second highest bid, not their "bid" / maximum offer). There is a lot of theory on that, especially around the inflation of bids due to the drop to second price.

With ebay, the problem is that without a snipe programme, you find that someone is in effect, not sealing their bid. How the exposure of this information works to other bidders I can't immediately think, but would ultimately work to inflate bidding and ebay fees (this would make sense).

So, if you don't use a snipe you get sucked in.
 

dHarry

Well-known member
well, I still can't see the moral problem with sniping, it's a logical development of eBay, and the max bid concept is equally "underhand".

Infinite, did you really get banned for manual sniping i.e. legitimate successful eBaying? that's hard to believe?!

But the big problem with eBay is really the time limit - the close of auction should involve an "any more bids? going, going..." scenario, assuming everyone is online for the close, to allow real bidding.

Anyone want to venture a few million in a rival site www.realtimebidding4rarerecords.com?
 
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