Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: Is the failure of New Labour tilting Britain to the Left or Right?

  1. #1

    Default Is the failure of New Labour tilting Britain to the Left or Right?

    And is this a futile, stupid question or not?

    I ask because I just watched Question Time on TV and Oliver Letwin and Robert Kilroy-Silk got, consistently, bigger applause than either Ed Balls or the Lib Dem dummy from an overwhelmingly left-leaning audience.

    Which, you know, could just be post-Iraq & etc. anger directed at New Labour, but it's weirder and more profound than that, I think.

    Because, for example, over Kyoto and the environment generally: NL has done more than any other Kyoto partners to reduce toxic emmisions. The international target was to cut down emmisions by 12%. The government didn't meet its target. That was the thrust of criticism hurled at Ed Balls. But the government set its target at a 20% reduction, higher than any other country. It managed 14%: not great, but higher than the international standard. What does it mean when environmentalists applaud Letwin on this issue, when both he and his party oppose any restrictions on industry to meet environmental targets?

    What I'm asking, I suppose, is what is left, politically, after New Labour? Where, or to what, would the country turn?

    And, even more broadly, explain to me why Blairism is Soft Fascism. I don't get that shit.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    36

    Default

    what's wierd to me is how New Labour is like the nth "3rd Way" to be floated by left-of-center parties since the end of cold war. I mean, as I was taught, Social Democracy itself (as imagined by TH Marshall, i think it was?) was the o.g. 3rd way, meant to have the dynamism, growth, fluidity etc of capital while having strong govt pillars in place to safeguard people's rights to health, education, food, justice, etc. Capital without crisis, socialism without the gulag and crap architechture, you see. But then New Labour, DLC Democrats, etc are the "3rd Way" between that 3rd Way and a right wing that isn't the same but hasn't "moved" necessarily, "triangulating" against the right's fixed point... and how many times did that happen?

    doesn't answer your q tho, sorry.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    12

    Default

    I think the environmental point is emblematic of the problem with political/public discorse at the moment. People ignore the acheivements NL have secured - poverty reduction, Surestart, low unemployment, minimum wage etc - and use Iraq and alienation from Blair as a fit-all battering ram. I think political opinion has fracutred out of left/right distinctions. right now, it's just depressing, non-ideological point-scoring. Thus you get Letwin attacking NL's record on the environment and the Lib Dems saying Labour are too soft on crime. The other obvious factor is that NL have so successfully and agressively occupied the entire centrist ground that those attacking the govt are forced to occupy more stringent or radical sounding positions. There does seem to have been a bit of an upsurge in far Left and far Right support - hence vaguely resurgent Old Labours, more Socialist Workers on street and UKIP etc on the other side - but the majority seem so alienated that they're prepared to attack the government in any way they can, regardless of actual politics. The whole depressing Blunkett business is typical.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    81

    Default

    but the majority seem so alienated that they're prepared to attack the government in any way they can
    what else can the government expect? even if blair had single-handedly found a cure for cancer, people would hate him, principally because on the issue of iraq - which, let's face it, is the one everyone's been talking about this year - he was a pious autodidact. politics = personality these days (ergo new labour = blair) but the PM himself is too haughty/superior to change.

    what new labour have achieved is being overlooked because blair has become so smug and sanctimonious. when people are taking sides, half the time it's not even about left or right any more: it's simply about something that isn't blair.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    w.yorkshire
    Posts
    2,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oliver craner
    And is this a futile, stupid question or not?
    i think its the wrong question- new labour, as designed by blair et al has been a resounding success. its the rest of us who are fcuked


    Quote Originally Posted by oliver craner
    And, even more broadly, explain to me why Blairism is Soft Fascism. I don't get that shit.
    as this article suggests, blair doesn't really like democracy and would prefer a more totalitarian system. however his recent pronouncements that "david blunkett will be cleared of any wrong doing" remind me more of stalin than hitler

  6. #6

    Default

    Oops, I've just realised how boring this thread is going to be.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    w.yorkshire
    Posts
    2,500

    Default

    or maybe just a
    Quote Originally Posted by oliver craner
    futile, stupid
    thread

  8. #8

    Default

    Yes. I regret the whole thing. It all seemed rather important last night.

  9. #9

    Default

    Look, I feel bad now. I didn't mean to sound derogative about your comments. It's my fault entirely. Look, jabob summed it up in one paragraph. Then I realised what a futile, stupid topic I'd introduced. Can we just forget the whole thing?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    15,528

    Default

    classic craner collapse of self confidence

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    The Fear - Dublin
    Posts
    7,331

    Default

    lol. Chin up Craner.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    15,528

    Default

    it was a good question (the answer, as it turned out, was both at once)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    لندورا
    Posts
    2,920

    Default

    Labour Live is coming to a park near us, https://www.labour.live/
    sounds likely to be shit and and a further humiliation for corbyn, probably will piss it down too, just to add to the shame

    might jump the fence anyhow as it's just around the corner, though they will probably be dragging locals in off the streets to try and fill the place up

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to sufi For This Useful Post:


  15. #14

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    15,528

    Default

    you've got an instinct for political currents.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •