Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
On dissensus. It's just the sort of thing people parrot without thinking cos it makes them feel superior.

If anything, it's the "I know something you don't know" mindset of the dedicated conspironaut that provides the sense of superiority.

And yeah, I think if it's "unoriginal" that's because it's occurred to lots of people because it's broadly true. The urge to join dots and make sense out of chaos is the ultimate root of all cognition, surely? It lies behind all art, all myth, and behind science and philosophy as well. And finding oneself unable to do that is terrifying.
 
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luka

Well-known member
On dissensus. It's just the sort of thing people parrot without thinking cos it makes them feel superior.

The vast majority of people assume life just occurs randomly, don't question it, aren't curious about it and suffer not the slightest pang of doubt. How this default setting is considered somehow less reassuring than being convinced that, for example, the planet is controlled by malevolent shape shifting reptilians is completely beyond me. Paranoia is not reassuring, by definition.
 

luka

Well-known member
Paranoia can range from persistent background unease and foreboding to outright terror. It can manifest as a persecution complex or as a sense of impending doom... what it doesn't manifest as is reassurance.
 

droid

Well-known member
Historically speaking, the vast majority of people believed (or pretended to believe) that life had purpose, meaning, that there was something controlling things, pressing the buttons. God(s), destiny, fate, nature. I don't see how this is even up for debate.
 

droid

Well-known member
The most stressful situations are ones in which people feel powerless, out of control. The average commuter gets more stressed out that a fighter pilot. Thats the foundation of the impulse.
 

version

Well-known member
The vast majority of people assume life just occurs randomly, don't question it, aren't curious about it and suffer not the slightest pang of doubt. How this default setting is considered somehow less reassuring than being convinced that, for example, the planet is controlled by malevolent shape shifting reptilians is completely beyond me. Paranoia is not reassuring, by definition.

That's a fair point, but we still project order onto things. How many times have you heard someone say something like "I knew that was going to happen" or "I bet you..." before something has happened? If we're happy to accept randomness, why do we feel the need to come to a conclusion before seeing what actually happens and why are we disappointed or made uncomfortable when it doesn't go the way we expected?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Paranoia can range from persistent background unease and foreboding to outright terror. It can manifest as a persecution complex or as a sense of impending doom... what it doesn't manifest as is reassurance.

Paranoia is only one aspect of it, though. There is a comfort in giving up, in believing that struggle is futile and betterment impossible because of Them, and in absolving yourself of responsibility. In extreme cases this can go as far a martyrdom complex.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
I'll just weigh in to say that I also disagree with Luka. Of course it's not true of everyone but I think given the choice between a) Random universe and b) Universe controlled by some overarching force, a large number of people would prefer the latter, even if that force is basically evil. Lots of people will get comfort from knowing that someone somewhere knows what is going on and has their hand on the tiller, and if they can feel party to that by being in on the conspiracy theory then so much the better. I guess (given that most conspiracy theories are negative - apart from the previously mentioned one about Tom Cruise being captive which seems entirely without downside) there is probably a reverse effect going on in that some (or even much) of what you gain in peace of mind by knowing about chem trails you give back by having to dodge them. I bet most people get a net gain however - surely that's part of the "why?".
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I've been listening to the series of ambient albums The Black Dog have done recently about conspiracy theories. They are mainly ambient with vocals from conspiracy theorists of various types - one per album.

Maybe that is an interesting example of this stuff being put to good use artistically - I don't know, it may be framed a bit to sceptically for Luka.

This one - https://duststoredigital.com/album/conspiracy-tapes-02-2
about slightly bonkers Christian conspiracy theorists is interesting because you can tell from their conversation that the theory and the social group that it provides does bring them some comfort.

This one - https://duststoredigital.com/album/conspiracy-tapes-03 about Brian Harvey
is really unsettling and it is clear that he is consumed with dread about what he has uncovered and what might happen to him.

So conspiracy theories do provide different people with entirely different things.

The overriding characteristics for me seem to be that they:

1. Answer the question "why is the world not quite right"
2. Provide a way of exhausting as much time and energy as people are able to give
 

luka

Well-known member
I wish I could focus my time and energy. Mostly i squander it You're right about a dislike of sceptical framing. These people are often damaged but not often evil and don't deserve the freak show treatment the likes of Jon Ronson give them imo.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
MK Ultra was as far fetched as you could hope for and yet there it is in the declassified docs. Regardless of that, I don't know how anyone can be sure about anything anymore. Let alone who or what is running the show.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I've seen several arguments for its validity, I've not seen one reasonable arguments against it... only dismissal. Why do you think it's wrong? Cos it's smug?
 

luka

Well-known member
I already said more or less. It just gets more and more irritating with each repetition mindlessly parroted. You know what forums are like. It just winds me up and I've been through it all multiple times before. Sorry. Don't mean to be a grouch.
 

luka

Well-known member
When you've spent 15 hours a day every day on the same forum with the same 8 or 9 people for 15 years!
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Well that will exacerbate it I guess. It's quite interesting when you think about it to have talked so much with people who you (or at least in my case) don't know what they look like or what they do or where they live etc
 
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