Why Conspiracy Theories?
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Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I've always misread your position on this stuff
I suppose I'm weary of even just imaginatively entertaining conspiracy theories because they seem so intertwined with far right politics.
Was it always thus? I actually think conspiracy theories were cooler back in the 90s.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Haha, says you!
Let's just consider what you wrote a couple of pages about the covered eye thing:
"generally it is thought to signal membership in the illuminati, or ownership by the illuminati"
So to take the first idea, it's basically a taunt to the general public, the unilluminati, the sheeple? But if someone doesn't know you're taunting them, then it's a wasted effort. And if they do know what's going on - as some people claim to - then isn't a huge unnecessary risk?
And if it's the second option - to show that these people, for all their fame and wealth, are essentially slaves, then why are their shadowy masters making them do that? The same problem of who the intended audience is supposed to be arises. And if they're just doing it to amuse themselves, then it's for no reason other than sheer theatrical wickedness. It's a fantasy author's idea of how evil, powerful people behave. Marvel supervillains, as I said. Moriarty. Voldemort.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think the slebs do it because they know it gives luka from Dissensus a total conspiracy lob-on.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I was thinking this when pattycakes was coming out with all the stuff about the Clintons - I'd have a much easier time believing the more out-there theories about them if they weren't invariably being broadcast by die-hard ultra-right Republicans.
And look at all this QAnon stuff about how Trump is the solution to a conspiracy-ridden America, and not the most obviously conspiracy-involved POTUS ever.
Well they certainly had more cachet back when they're weren't the sort of thing you see your clueless aunt spamming Facebook with. For one thing, you at least had to make a bit of an effort to find out about this stuff in the first place.
luka
Well-known member
Tea, stop trying to think. You'll hurt your head. I was just telling you how this stuff is construed in the literature.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well I think for you it's a bit more than that, isn't it?
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
What's interesting about the conspiracy theories is that they appear in hotspots where there IS a conspiracy going on. Like the Clinton's. They're not running a paedo palace under a pizza parlour but they ARE balls deep in corruption and warmongering.
I wonder if there are conspiracy theories about Trump? I almost think he's too nakedly corrupt and crooked for it to be worth creating them about him. (Except that he's secretly a puppet of the Clintons, maybe?)
There's the conspiracy theory that conspiracy theories are obfuscations created by people like the Clintons to make it seem like made conspiracy mongering to criticise them legitimately.
A never ending pit of mirrors.
I wonder if there are conspiracy theories about Trump? I almost think he's too nakedly corrupt and crooked for it to be worth creating them about him. (Except that he's secretly a puppet of the Clintons, maybe?)
There's the conspiracy theory that conspiracy theories are obfuscations created by people like the Clintons to make it seem like made conspiracy mongering to criticise them legitimately.
A never ending pit of mirrors.
luka
Well-known member
There's any number of things that makes conspiracy theory fascinating. But I know I'm never going to convince you lot of that.
"Well actually Luka, you just find it comforting to believe that the world is run by an ancient reptilian bloodline rather than face the truth that everything is very mundane and predictable"
"Well actually Luka, you just find it comforting to believe that the world is run by an ancient reptilian bloodline rather than face the truth that everything is very mundane and predictable"
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
This is just what I mean. Of course they're up to their necks in it, all leaders are in all countries to a greater or lesser extend. You'd have to be a newborn lamb to think otherwise. But it's "boring" - well I mean obviously it's not boring at all, it's grimly fascinating, but it doesn't have that pantomime-villain aspect that it does when you mix in sex and the occult.
In fact the sex element is worth looking into. Consider for how long a standard accusation against anyone considered to be part of a sinister conspiracy was simply to say that they were gay: the Templars were classic victims of this, as well as the Albigensians/Cathars/Bogomils (the latter name is where the word "buggery" comes from). Now it's no longer a crime to be gay, at least in civilized countries, and among the more progressive ones it's not that big a deal at all, so the new standard for taboo/criminal sex is kiddy-fiddling.
Yes, there's this of course, which I've thought for a long time. If I were a Koch brother or Zuckerberg or someone of that ilk, I would be thrilled to bits at the idea of millions of people convinced that the conspiracy they should really be worried about involves aliens or members of a secret society dating back to Ancient Egypt or whatever.
Or to put it another way: I don't really give a shit if some narcissistic billionaire's latest phallus-pallace has a ground plan based on the Temple of Solomon - he wants to do that, fine, doesn't affect me in the least. What I do care about is Tory ministers having business interests with American health insurance companies.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's only "mundane" if you think a story needs aliens and DMT entities and ritual satanist paedos to make it interesting, I think. That's what I meant by "boring" - boring from the PoV of someone who thinks House of Cards is boring because it isn't X-Files.
As for it being predictable, what do you think most people would have said if you'd told them a decade ago that Donald Trump would soon be POTUS? Who has any real idea of who'll be PM in a year's time, or whether the UK will still be in the EU?
(Except Craner, obviously, who's keeping it close to his chest at the moment.)
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
You've been pretty dismissive of all the evidence of the Russian interference in both the last election in America and the EU ref here, I notice. Maybe you're not interested in that precisely because there is so much evidence, though - much more Mulderian to work from shadowy hints and symbols!
I think politics is essentially conspiratorial tbh. It's all about small cliques of people attempting to impose their wills. The Tories and Brexit, it's a conspiracy, or many conspiracies. Even Corbyn taking over Labour - also a conspiracy of sorts, though one that started out as an accident. Conspiracies soon grew around that though.
Just soured on them a lot after seeing so many employed negatively. There's nothing more dispiriting than arguing with someone who's convinced all chemical weapons attacks in Syria are organised by NATO. Or wants to argue the toss about hospital bombings. I mean "dispiriting" literally - it depresses me, makes me doubt and dislike people, the human condition. it's the fucking void.
This is a good thread, on how an excess of information can make things harder to understand:
I do think that open source intelligence does kinda change the game a little in terms of conspiracies at least in terms of recent and unfolding events. It is possible to know now, in a way that it wasn't before. I'm quite excited by this sort of work. But it's a kind of anti-conspiracism if you like.
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