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Thread: Poetry Hit Rate

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadthesecond View Post
    It'd be like taking a Britney song and breaking it down into keys and measures and modulations and harmonics and telling you exactly when she goes off pitch or doesn't quite hit a note. Does anyone really care?
    that Ian MacDonald bloke did it for the Beatles. tho no, no one really cares but a certain kind of obssessive fan that pores over liner notes & delights in minutaie, the kind of which Britney Spears doesn't exactly inspire (though I'm sure she's inspired fans who are obssessive in, ah, other ways). though I think it could also be interesting professionals in the field - in that case musicians/singers/producers - like engineers discussing what does & doesn't work in the design of a suspension bridge. that's the tedious side of creating art though, I dunno it does produce a lot of great stuff tho - jungle was an engineers' music after all.

    like for poetry & prose it's probably helpful, though not necessary, to know all the formal bizness cos then you can use, discard or mash it up at will.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by empty mirror View Post
    well, and then there are prose poems by the likes of gertrude stein and charles simic----poetry written in the shape of prose
    Do you like Charles Simic? I don't know what I think of him. I remember really liking "Congress of the Insomniacs" when I first read it, but it seems a little self-help, Paolo Coehlo-ish to me now.

  3. #33
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    sorta not really.
    i try to read widely to see what sticks, i guess.
    poets i really like would be a short list.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by empty mirror View Post
    bukowski has a handful of great poems discouraging people from writing poems
    while i agree with him, it hardly seems necessary
    who do you know who even reads? much less write. i mean really?!
    that was just the way he wrote, from the gut, out as quick as a warm beer shit.

    the context during the time of when this poem was written is needed.

    his shows were like rock performances. drinking solidly all day, live reading at night, after-party's with wannabe poets/writers/artists/thinkers and general hanger-on's (whom he despised), home for more drink (if he couldn't get laid, then thoughts spewed out as natural as a 'warm beer shit'.

    from his point of view the necessity of his writing is explained .

  5. #35

    Default Teenage Kicks

    J'ai de mes ancêtres gaulois l'oeil bleu blanc, la cervelle étroite, et la maladresse dans la lutte. Je trouve mon habillement aussi barbare que le leur. Mais je ne beurre pas ma chevelure.

    Les Gaulois étaient les écorcheurs de bêtes, les brûleurs d'herbes les plus ineptes de leur temps.

    D'eux, j'ai : l'idolâtrie et l'amour du sacrilège ; - Oh ! tous les vices, colère, luxure, - magnifique, la luxure ; - surtout mensonge et paresse.

    J'ai horreur de tous les métiers. Maîtres et ouvriers, tous paysans, ignobles. La main à plume vaut la main à charrue. - Quel siècle à mains ! - Je n'aurai jamais ma main. Après, la domesticité mène trop loin. L'honnêteté de la mendicité me navre. Les criminels dégoûtent comme des châtrés : moi, je suis intact, et ça m'est égal.

    Mais ! qui a fait ma langue perfide tellement qu'elle ait guidé et sauvegardé jusqu'ici ma paresse ? Sans me servir pour vivre même de mon corps, et plus oisif que le crapaud, j'ai vécu partout. Pas une famille d'Europe que je ne connaisse. - J'entends des familles comme la mienne, qui tiennent tout de la déclaration des Droits de l'Homme. - J'ai connu chaque fils de famille!

  6. #36
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    Rimbaud was the greatest teenager ever.

  7. #37

    Default 2 fuckin rite R kid

    Il m'est bien évident que j'ai toujours été race inférieure. Je ne puis comprendre la révolte. Ma race ne se souleva jamais que pour piller : tels les loups à la bête qu'ils n'ont pas tuée.

  8. #38
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    RIMBAUD

    Once upon a time,
    Life was a banquet.
    And I was such bad poet,
    I could never finish what I started.

  9. #39

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    Just finished Shelley's Prometheus Unbound, possibly the most ambitious 'poem' ever? it basically tries to perform the entire infinite operation of the material universe, including human thought, as materially coessential and symphonically harmonious. sort of like a one-up on Milton, i.e. so you've described the beginning and ending of the universe and all history, well, in my universe time is infinite, and so is space..

    but weirder still, lets take it back to 1759 & free verse 150 years avant la lettre

    http://www.pseudopodium.org/repress/jubilate/

  10. #40
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    That does sound amazing.

  11. #41

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    Rimbaud was a good formalist, as was Bauderlaire, Rilke, all your symbolist, impressionist modernist favorites. I'm not saying you can't junk form to write great literature, some mangled form between prose and poetry for example, but you certainly can't write a poem without understand the form of poetry. Poetry is, essentialy, verse, song.

    I am not trying to burst your pretensions, or Bukowski's, but that's just the way it is. Poetry is music, made by words. There has to be, at the very least, rhythm to justify it, if not classical scansion.

    A rather muddled argument between Luke and I happened years ago on this subject, and has continued ever since. Just for context.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Rimbaud was a good formalist, as was Bauderlaire, Rilke, all your symbolist, impressionist modernist favorites. I'm not saying you can't junk form to write great literature, some mangled form between prose and poetry for example, but you certainly can't write a poem without understand the form of poetry. Poetry is, essentialy, verse, song.

    I am not trying to burst your pretensions, or Bukowski's, but that's just the way it is. Poetry is music, made by words. There has to be, at the very least, rhythm to justify it, if not classical scansion.

    A rather muddled argument between Luke and I happened years ago on this subject, and has continued ever since. Just for context.
    You can't junk form to write good music either, but you can't get too hung up on it either, that's all.

    Do you think good prose doesn't need rhythm or musicality? I think it does.

    PS I'd never heard of Guyotat until someone wrote about him on their blog last year and boy is he great.
    Last edited by nomadthethird; 02-03-2009 at 11:48 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Rimbaud was a good formalist, as was Bauderlaire, Rilke, all your symbolist, impressionist modernist favorites. I'm not saying you can't junk form to write great literature, some mangled form between prose and poetry for example, but you certainly can't write a poem without understand the form of poetry. Poetry is, essentialy, verse, song.
    But the question of what poetic form is doesn't seem to me to be a very easily answered question.

    A song is something that walks on its own.

  14. #44

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    I'm not really hung up on any of this; I just really like great writing. If it's there and it's beautiful, that's fine.

    But to describe writing as "poetry" is different from defining a poem. It's not really a contentious point, except to the point now where, does poetry really exist as a legitimate form of expression. Probably not. In the sense of writing "poems".

    As an adjective, poetry exists. It's waking up to a lovely morning, or hearing a good song, or spotting a Waxwing in a Supermarket carpark.

  15. #45

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    A song is different: it's verse + music.

    Poetry is verse. Until Shakespeare: then it's words with, and rubbing against form.

    Blank verse. Still verse.

    Will's Sonnets, still sonnets, though he shreds form, while retaining it, like all your junglist favs.

    I mean: it's like Dillinja vs. Squarepusher at the end of the day, you understand?

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