Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 98

Thread: Jeff Chang: “Why has nothing replaced hip hop?”

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    334

    Default Jeff Chang: “Why has nothing replaced hip hop?”

    I heard Jeff Chang, author of ‘Can’t Stop Won’t Stop,’ speaking at bookstore event last week. He raised a question which I thought might do well on Dissensus. In a nutshell, he asked “why has nothing replaced hip hop?”

    Popular black music in the US has reinvented itself at least once a decade for a long time, in the 50s there was R&B, 60s - Rock & Roll, 70s - Disco, 80s - Hip Hop. But the 90s there was nothing to replace hip hop, and it doesn’t seem like anything else is on the way anytime soon (from within the US at least, several people in the audience started shouting out that grime/baille funk etc would replace hip hop, which was interesting).

    Obviously this simplifies things a bit (hip hop kicked off in the early 70s etc) but essentially I thought it was a good point, and an interesting question with several answers which the esteemed fellows of this board may want to grapple with.

    Ladies and Gentlemen: The floor is yours…

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Orstraylya, I love Orstraylyia, it's mai favourite place in the world besides California!
    Posts
    849

    Default

    Coz HIHOP is 4REAL MUFFUCKERS, and all dem Homies is makin' buckets of cash so dey can show doze white-m@gg0ts whose a FUGGEN BOSS, A-IGHT! YOU KNOW WHAT AHM SAYIN'? And then we show you biotches our CRIBS on MTV, I got a mansion in Hollywood Hills and more more fuggen cash den robbin' banks, it's legit. A-IGHT! Platinum albums and I don't really need to tour coz I seel so many album, not what AHM SAYIN', keeping it real A-IGHT?

    And black music has POWER, so deal wit it is coz it ain't goin' away, and for years dose evil Yids and White-mans were ripping us off, but now we rip them off, coz they too busy selling arms to the South Africans and and Indians!

    So NOTHING WILL REPLACE HIPHOP COZ HIPHOP Is FOR EVER!! And if it ain't broke don't fix it, we can always sample some old-shit and make it new again, why create something new from scratch, shit don't work like that anymore, post-modernism and ultra-capitalism RULES SUPREME!! And what else will there be to make dem white f@gg0ts feel like bad-ass muffuckers?

    Peace out. 5000-G
    All I do now is dick around Sparks, 2006

    Stuff to read on the toilet :linky

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    86

    Default

    wow what an annoying post

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    T.OK.YO
    Posts
    484

    Default

    prrrrrrretty gratuitous (& unfunny!!)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Total eyeroll at caroica funk 'replacing' rap music. It is rap music, in the sense that it holds the same/similar cultural-musical space for Brazillians that rap does here.
    Last edited by DavidD; 28-03-2006 at 08:45 AM.
    fuck the tango, do the fandango

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    33°23'S, 70°47'W
    Posts
    1,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evergreen
    wow what an annoying post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    prrrrrrretty gratuitous (& unfunny!!)
    now please enlighten us with your brilliant thoughts

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buick6
    Coz HIHOP is 4REAL MUFFUCKERS, and all dem Homies is makin' buckets of cash so dey can show doze white-m@gg0ts whose a FUGGEN BOSS, A-IGHT! YOU KNOW WHAT AHM SAYIN'? And then we show you biotches our CRIBS on MTV, I got a mansion in Hollywood Hills and more more fuggen cash den robbin' banks, it's legit. A-IGHT! Platinum albums and I don't really need to tour coz I seel so many album, not what AHM SAYIN', keeping it real A-IGHT?

    And black music has POWER, so deal wit it is coz it ain't goin' away, and for years dose evil Yids and White-mans were ripping us off, but now we rip them off, coz they too busy selling arms to the South Africans and and Indians!

    So NOTHING WILL REPLACE HIPHOP COZ HIPHOP Is FOR EVER!! And if it ain't broke don't fix it, we can always sample some old-shit and make it new again, why create something new from scratch, shit don't work like that anymore, post-modernism and ultra-capitalism RULES SUPREME!! And what else will there be to make dem white f@gg0ts feel like bad-ass muffuckers?

    Peace out. 5000-G
    Someone said you live in south wales. Are you in goldie lookin chain? Its really cool the way you adopt an afroamerican personna to continue the anti-semitism i've seen you push on other threads. What creativity!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    brooklyn
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    yeah, i'd have to say "ban" him at this point

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    You could argue, and I will for the sake of it, that hip hop has changed far more than rock did before it was replaced (rock has changed a lot too, but not so much while it was the key black music). Early hip hop sounds almost nothing like crunk does.

    But more to the point white people haven't taken over the making of hip hop int he way that they took over all of those other forms. So it's remained credible in the eyes of the black trendsetters, allowing i to remian credible in the eyes of the white mainstream as well.

    Other than Eminem and the Beasties there are no other really credible white hip hop artists. all those other forms were adopted much sooner.

    The reasons for this probably lie int he (limited) success of the civil rights movement. Black people now have the ability (at least some of the time) to continue to control the cultural output of their art. Previously, they had to cooperate with the white establishment.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    4,341

    Default

    grime and baille funk wont replace hip hop cos they are still rap music, sorry guys.

    i think melchior is mostly right - before, older forms of black music would be taken over by white artists and then the black audience would mostly abandon them in favour of something else that would be the new popular african american music. cos black artists are still in control this time, or at least the main artists, its been less easy to co-opt. in a way, its sort of like 'rappers' revenge'. everything chuck d et al used to say about making sure what was done to early black rock/R&B artists wouldnt happen again with rap, they actually made it come true. in a way, you could view hip hop as an unconscious attempt to make something that couldnt be easily co-opted by white artists. hip hop is so intrinsic to the african american experience that its really hard for any white rapper to come out and remain credible.

  11. #11
    droid Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ukbass
    Someone said you live in south wales. Are you in goldie lookin chain? Its really cool the way you adopt an afroamerican personna to continue the anti-semitism i've seen you push on other threads. What creativity!
    I think youve misunderstood the subtleties of Buick's approach. He's not actually anti-semetic, hes simply adopting an ironic anti-semetic/racist pose to parody the suffocatingly anti-semetic/racist atmosphere thats prevelant here.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    South London
    Posts
    276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Melchior
    You could argue, and I will for the sake of it, that hip hop has changed far more than rock did before it was replaced (rock has changed a lot too, but not so much while it was the key black music). Early hip hop sounds almost nothing like crunk does.
    I think this is fairly spot on, to be honest. I read an interview with DJ Shadow years ago, where he described hip hop as omnigenre - it might have been in More Brilliant Than The Sun, now I come to think of it. Anyway, the point being, that one of hip hop's greatest strengths is that it can incorporate the enemies sound (so to speak) whilst retaining its fundamental form.

    Which is why, of course, hip hop is the ultimate superstructure to free market capitalism's base

    Hip hop is, after all, more of an attitude than a particular sound, and that's why it's acceptable to put DJ Screw in the same box as, say, Grandmaster Flash, even though they sound totally different.

    Quote Originally Posted by dominic
    yeah, i'd have to say "ban" him at this point
    What? From a forum called Dissensus? Curious idea...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    116

    Default

    May as well ask why nothing has replaced the punk rock/ new wave/ indie template since the late 70's in white music -it's post- modernism innit?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    4,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by D7_bohs
    May as well ask why nothing has replaced the punk rock/ new wave/ indie template since the late 70's in white music -it's post- modernism innit?
    i dunno if its the same cos those musics still built on rock. hip hop was a break from disco, funk and soul that preceded it in the 70s. eg - there wasnt rapping in those genres, and they werent based around anyone laying vocals on top of old records either.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,684

    Default

    i think you have to look at the way hip-hop has changed and continues to morph into different styles - each regional twist and turn, every tempo shift and development in production techniques, not to mention the changes rhyming styles and subject matter.

    if hip-hop had stayed as straight-up, boom-bap, two turntables and a microphone, party-down shit, it would never have lasted as long as it has. however, it's become lots of different things in different states, specific to each area's audience (bounce, screw, hyphy, crunk, whatever) and shifted through all kinds of different basic templates, from the stuff played over session musician backing tracks, to turntable-based productions, to futuristic R&B-style gloss. and the possibilities aren't all used up yet by any means.

    then there is hip-hop that isn't really hip-hop, like b'more club and detroit ghettotech, funk carioca, grime, some kwaito, reggaeton etc. i used to be really against saying that grime was hip-hop but all these styles are part of the hip-hop continuum and there's no real getting away from it. its influence is huge and i see hip-hop as an umbrella term for so much music that it's pretty mind-boggling, rather than a single genre.

    seeing hip-hop as one tree with different branches is a bit limiting. it's actually a whole forest of music, and like anything organic, it's dying all the time. it just germinates incredibly successfully, so as soon as one tree dies or withers, there's another there to take its place.

    this is the optimistic view, of course, because you could equally say that hip-hop is such a vast money-making machine that people simply want to maintain the status quo and refuse to let it die. there's got to be something of that in it, but i prefer to look at it as at least equally weighted in favour of the music's creative potential.

    (oh and by the way, i think that anyone who *repeatedly* uses homophobic and racist terminology, even in very unsuccesful jest, should be banned.)
    Last edited by stelfox; 28-03-2006 at 01:42 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •