Jeff Chang: “Why has nothing replaced hip hop?”

Coz HIHOP is 4REAL MUFFUCKERS, and all dem Homies is makin' buckets of cash so dey can show doze white-m@gg0ts whose a FUGGEN BOSS, A-IGHT! YOU KNOW WHAT AHM SAYIN'? And then we show you biotches our CRIBS on MTV, I got a mansion in Hollywood Hills and more more fuggen cash den robbin' banks, it's legit. A-IGHT! Platinum albums and I don't really need to tour coz I seel so many album, not what AHM SAYIN', keeping it real A-IGHT?

And black music has POWER, so deal wit it is coz it ain't goin' away, and for years dose evil Yids and White-mans were ripping us off, but now we rip them off, coz they too busy selling arms to the South Africans and and Indians!

So NOTHING WILL REPLACE HIPHOP COZ HIPHOP Is FOR EVER!! And if it ain't broke don't fix it, we can always sample some old-shit and make it new again, why create something new from scratch, shit don't work like that anymore, post-modernism and ultra-capitalism RULES SUPREME!! And what else will there be to make dem white f@gg0ts feel like bad-ass muffuckers?

Peace out. 5000-G

wow what an annoying post

prrrrrrretty gratuitous (& unfunny!!)

Total eyeroll at caroica funk 'replacing' rap music. It is rap music, in the sense that it holds the same/similar cultural-musical space for Brazillians that rap does here.

evergreen said:

wow what an annoying post

Click to expand...

Eric said:

prrrrrrretty gratuitous (& unfunny!!)

Click to expand...

now please enlighten us with your brilliant thoughts

Buick6 said:

Coz HIHOP is 4REAL MUFFUCKERS, and all dem Homies is makin' buckets of cash so dey can show doze white-m@gg0ts whose a FUGGEN BOSS, A-IGHT! YOU KNOW WHAT AHM SAYIN'? And then we show you biotches our CRIBS on MTV, I got a mansion in Hollywood Hills and more more fuggen cash den robbin' banks, it's legit. A-IGHT! Platinum albums and I don't really need to tour coz I seel so many album, not what AHM SAYIN', keeping it real A-IGHT?

And black music has POWER, so deal wit it is coz it ain't goin' away, and for years dose evil Yids and White-mans were ripping us off, but now we rip them off, coz they too busy selling arms to the South Africans and and Indians!

So NOTHING WILL REPLACE HIPHOP COZ HIPHOP Is FOR EVER!! And if it ain't broke don't fix it, we can always sample some old-shit and make it new again, why create something new from scratch, shit don't work like that anymore, post-modernism and ultra-capitalism RULES SUPREME!! And what else will there be to make dem white f@gg0ts feel like bad-ass muffuckers?

Peace out. 5000-G

Click to expand...

Someone said you live in south wales. Are you in goldie lookin chain? Its really cool the way you adopt an afroamerican personna to continue the anti-semitism i've seen you push on other threads. What creativity!

yeah, i'd have to say "ban" him at this point

You could argue, and I will for the sake of it, that hip hop has changed far more than rock did before it was replaced (rock has changed a lot too, but not so much while it was the key black music). Early hip hop sounds almost nothing like crunk does.

But more to the point white people haven't taken over the making of hip hop int he way that they took over all of those other forms. So it's remained credible in the eyes of the black trendsetters, allowing i to remian credible in the eyes of the white mainstream as well.

Other than Eminem and the Beasties there are no other really credible white hip hop artists. all those other forms were adopted much sooner.

The reasons for this probably lie int he (limited) success of the civil rights movement. Black people now have the ability (at least some of the time) to continue to control the cultural output of their art. Previously, they had to cooperate with the white establishment.

grime and baille funk wont replace hip hop cos they are still rap music, sorry guys.

i think melchior is mostly right - before, older forms of black music would be taken over by white artists and then the black audience would mostly abandon them in favour of something else that would be the new popular african american music. cos black artists are still in control this time, or at least the main artists, its been less easy to co-opt. in a way, its sort of like 'rappers' revenge'. everything chuck d et al used to say about making sure what was done to early black rock/R&B artists wouldnt happen again with rap, they actually made it come true. in a way, you could view hip hop as an unconscious attempt to make something that couldnt be easily co-opted by white artists. hip hop is so intrinsic to the african american experience that its really hard for any white rapper to come out and remain credible.

ukbass said:

Someone said you live in south wales. Are you in goldie lookin chain? Its really cool the way you adopt an afroamerican personna to continue the anti-semitism i've seen you push on other threads. What creativity!

Click to expand...

I think youve misunderstood the subtleties of Buick's approach. He's not actually anti-semetic, hes simply adopting an ironic anti-semetic/racist pose to parody the suffocatingly anti-semetic/racist atmosphere thats prevelant here.

Melchior said:

You could argue, and I will for the sake of it, that hip hop has changed far more than rock did before it was replaced (rock has changed a lot too, but not so much while it was the key black music). Early hip hop sounds almost nothing like crunk does.

Click to expand...

I think this is fairly spot on, to be honest. I read an interview with DJ Shadow years ago, where he described hip hop as omnigenre - it might have been in More Brilliant Than The Sun, now I come to think of it. Anyway, the point being, that one of hip hop's greatest strengths is that it can incorporate the enemies sound (so to speak) whilst retaining its fundamental form.

Which is why, of course, hip hop is the ultimate superstructure to free market capitalism's base

Hip hop is, after all, more of an attitude than a particular sound, and that's why it's acceptable to put DJ Screw in the same box as, say, Grandmaster Flash, even though they sound totally different.

dominic said:

yeah, i'd have to say "ban" him at this point

Click to expand...

What? From a forum called Dissensus? Curious idea...

May as well ask why nothing has replaced the punk rock/ new wave/ indie template since the late 70's in white music -it's post- modernism innit?

D7_bohs said:

May as well ask why nothing has replaced the punk rock/ new wave/ indie template since the late 70's in white music -it's post- modernism innit?

Click to expand...

i dunno if its the same cos those musics still built on rock. hip hop was a break from disco, funk and soul that preceded it in the 70s. eg - there wasnt rapping in those genres, and they werent based around anyone laying vocals on top of old records either.

i think you have to look at the way hip-hop has changed and continues to morph into different styles - each regional twist and turn, every tempo shift and development in production techniques, not to mention the changes rhyming styles and subject matter.

if hip-hop had stayed as straight-up, boom-bap, two turntables and a microphone, party-down shit, it would never have lasted as long as it has. however, it's become lots of different things in different states, specific to each area's audience (bounce, screw, hyphy, crunk, whatever) and shifted through all kinds of different basic templates, from the stuff played over session musician backing tracks, to turntable-based productions, to futuristic R&B-style gloss. and the possibilities aren't all used up yet by any means.

then there is hip-hop that isn't really hip-hop, like b'more club and detroit ghettotech, funk carioca, grime, some kwaito, reggaeton etc. i used to be really against saying that grime was hip-hop but all these styles are part of the hip-hop continuum and there's no real getting away from it. its influence is huge and i see hip-hop as an umbrella term for so much music that it's pretty mind-boggling, rather than a single genre.

seeing hip-hop as one tree with different branches is a bit limiting. it's actually a whole forest of music, and like anything organic, it's dying all the time. it just germinates incredibly successfully, so as soon as one tree dies or withers, there's another there to take its place.

this is the optimistic view, of course, because you could equally say that hip-hop is such a vast money-making machine that people simply want to maintain the status quo and refuse to let it die. there's got to be something of that in it, but i prefer to look at it as at least equally weighted in favour of the music's creative potential.

(oh and by the way, i think that anyone who *repeatedly* uses homophobic and racist terminology, even in very unsuccesful jest, should be banned.)

i don't know if it necessarily "replaced" hip-hop, but what about house/techno? this was for the most part created by black youths.

spotrusha said:

i don't know if it necessarily "replaced" hip-hop, but what about house/techno? this was for the most part created by black youths.

Click to expand...

imo, it's nowhere near as important and certainly not a head-on challenge to hip-hop. also, a lot of it came out of electro, which is hip-hop.

Good post Stelfox. One off topic thing:

stelfox said:

(oh and by the way, i think that anyone who uses homohobic and racist terminology, even in very unsuccesful jest, should be banned.)

Click to expand...

No-one should be banned unless theyre making life impossible for other users through excessive trolling/spamming/spoofing etc... If someone's being consistently offensive, they'll just find themselves ignored eventually...

All IMO of course.

i dunno, we've banned people before. i think racism and anti-semitism are pretty good things not to tolerate. it's a bit more than just being annoying.

stelfox said:

i dunno, we've banned people before. i think racism and anti-semitism are pretty good things not to tolerate. it's a bit more than just being annoying.

Click to expand...

otm- not to mention his continual butchering of the english language...